wouldnt it be better in the q3 forum? why you call it q3 comback when its more like cpma? no harm intended but we have millions of the same topic here.

why you call it q3 comback when its more like cpma?

Because the end-goal is to see a full Q3 comeback but i believe it needs to be done in stages otherwise it wont work. Of course It would be nice to see all the communities of Q3 flourishing again but unlike CPMA, alot of them are targetted towards audiences with a specific taste.

On the otherhand, CPMA for the most part covers alot of the gameplay modes that QL has, and some, which will make the transition less difficult for those used to something specific in QL.

Piss off.

no

rofl

I LOLed...

rofl@name

whats up with the dickish "lol, hahaha, rofl" remarks? are you guys actually satisfied with the way ID has handled QL these past years?

if someone says yes, admin nuke this thread for me...

lol

hahaha

rofl

Ignored.

rofl

I'm not
especially the lack of transparency/communication

but to think you'll draw the community from a free to play browser game by making them install quake 3 (which you have to pay for) and the cpma pack (so a different mod), you're in for a disappointment

Fair points. And I agree, there would be no way to legally distribute copywritten Quake3 pk3 files.

However, correct me if I'm mistaken, but was there not a fork of Q3 done that plays nearly exactly the same, and supports CPMA and other mods?

If so, can we not use this to jumpstart things?

Are you talking about Open Arena? Or maybe Aftershock?

Ugh, definitely not Open Arena.

Ive never tried Aftershock so I dont know how well it supports Q3 mods and maps.

aftershock is just a pk3 for openarena

Oh ok, then definitely no to both of those. Open Arena and any of its derivatives are an abomination.

Lol, so your plan revolves around open arena? Good luck with that...

I don't really have a concrete plan, I'm just brainstorming ideas. Feel free to contribute.

I have zero time for contributing at the moment / foreseeable future. But I wouldn't contribute to this anyway.

If the PMX team were unable to pull q3+cpma into a standalone game before running out of enthusiasm for it, you won't be able to. And that was without trying to correct the shortcomings of QL like lack of matchmaking etc.

Why would I make q3+cpma into a Standalone game? I think the best approach would be something Web-based (like QL) for maximum exposure.

And sorry, who are the PMX team and what were they involved in?

Because you cannot legally redistribute q3 via the web, so you need free replacements for all media (and the existing free replacements are generally poor quality and will be a massive turn off for players)

Just because you can't legally redistribute it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

All that's necessary is an overseas / offshore server where "legal" US laws do not apply which will serve as the CDN.

Problem solved.

So you pass the copyright infringement issue onto all users of the service within the EU and the US. That's bound to make it really popular.

Clearly you have no real idea of what you are going to do, and probably none of the skills required to do it. So it seems the trolls were right. Rofl @ you.

Nope. All I have to do is make them check "I already legally own a copy of Quake3" before distributing it to them.

Problem solved.

Haha.

That game sure will stand on high moral grounds.

Technically everything about it will be legal. It will be considered legal within its region of jurisdiction. (Laws arent the same everywhere), and those wishing to play must sign / check an agreement that says they already own the game before the distribution of core files occur.

Think of PMX as CPMA 2, made by the CPMA team, and set up as a standalone game that doesn't depend upon I'd copyright media.

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1657430

I've seen ID, id, iD and Id but it's the first time I see I'd. Congratulation.

iPad autocorrect fail - I usually catch that one but obviously missed it that time

having an i product is fail in itself :D don't blame autocorrect. :>

Sounds like it would've been sweet.

i'm not too, thats why I play another game.

It is called freedom of choice.

QL has certainly been handled a lot better than Q3...

Not by a long shot.

what are your arguments?
for q3 id did NOTHING over a decade. just fire up a baseq3 installation and see how it plays.. everything you need to play properly is missing. everything was coded in by the community (osp/cpma). on ql however, id has, from the start, gone over to code in a lot of popular and widely used functions.

Q3 was handled by the community far better than QL was handled by ID.

Without the innovative community developments from Q3 such as OSP/CPMA and the other amazing content made by the fans, ID would've had no idea where to start with QL.

Think about that.

yes, ofc, I mean, the community has not much opportunity in QL. but if you read the post i was referring to, you were talking about how ID handled the game, not the community. that was what i was referring to.

I still disagree. Perhaps ID should have laid the groundwork, and neglected QL similarly to how they neglected Q3, and let the community take it from there. It obviously would've turned out alot better without them controlling every single aspect of the game.

i know ppl playing baseq3 without the fancy stuff like forcemodel, QL is not quite there yet but it is good as it is, and someone has to pay the server bills

One Mod to rule them all, One Mod to find them,
One Mod to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

osp>cpma

honestly i wouldnt say OSP > CPMA or CPMA > OSP.

They're both different in their own unique ways and I have a deep love for both, but its clear to see that OSP is the less popular of the two nowadays.

Reasoning behind initially supporting a CPMA comeback for this project as opposed to OSP is simply that CPMA still has a hardcore scene / following (albeit small) going on. Unfortunately, that's more than can be said for OSP, RA3, Threewave, and a few of my other missed favorites...

true

I miss those times when aiming was hard, where 35 from lg was really something, where 3 rails in row was something rare

it was probably due bad netcode but whatever

Agreed, OSP definitely had a more raw feel to it and took some time adjusting to if you were coming from CPMA or RA3.

That was the beauty of osp vq3.

Yeah let's play an ancient mod with shitty netcode for nostalgia's sake.

ql, osp vq3, cpma promode, q3 exessive+, q2, qw, q4, wsw, xonotic, open arena, alien arena, nexuiz classic.. I see no way to join all those splitted quake parts. It is just a dream. Ospers hate cpm, promoders hate ql and vq3, qlers hate everything and so on.

Understood, but if ID was able to garner interest of all (well, most) of those players into atleast trying QL, what's stopping me (or someone else) from doing a proper job at bringing them together, whilst at the same time introducing it to new, interested faces?

Because you're not id.

Explain

They got loads of money that can be potentially invested, you probably don't have that. id are creators of the Quake series, they are known to people, are kind of "offical authority" to Quake and IMO people will stick to "official" games. Their new games will get some attention, same was with QL. You don't have that. People will follow eg. EA's new games even if they are made by unknown people and are utter shit because they know EA already. Big companies have it easier, because they will instantly get newsposts and reach thousands of people. I don't think you can do this.

They got loads of money that can be potentially invested

Check.

Big companies have it easier, because they will instantly get newsposts and reach thousands of people.

True, but with enough funding, anything is possible. Even ID had to start somewhere.

are you trolling? id started with john carmack in a genre they were about to invent. you can't even sell this idea to the people who love quake 3 the most. how are you going to sell the concept to an investor?

It's already done. Don't believe me just watch.

okay man, good luck.

I don't hate ql, i just don't play it cos i don't like it, cpm fits more my preferences...

http://esreality.com/post/2470505/syncerror-talks/

massive update looks like it for QL. no need for this guys

i was in till i read cpma and cpma only

fuck that

osp>everything

I am fed up with how ID handled Q3's successor (QL)

Where's Q4?

and would like to start a project to bring back Q3. As you all know, Q3 is infinitely better than QL in every way.

I don't know, actually. QL has a number of very significant improvements over Q3. Raw mouse being one of them.

If you feel it is that much better than QL, you are free to play Q3.

to avoid splitting the community further,

I am working on drafting a plan together on how to migrate newcomers away from QL and towards my project

CPMA, as great as it is, is difficult for newbies to get in to. Downloading .pk3s, modding, configging, mousefixes, irc...

While your wishes are noble, let people play what they want to play.

I don't know, actually. QL has a number of very significant improvements over Q3. Raw mouse being one of them.

No doubt denying QL has made some significant improvements, but overall Q3 still brings more to the table in terms of content, gameplay, replay value, etc. There's so much more a person can do on Q3 than in QL. It really is a whole new experience

CPMA, as great as it is, is difficult for newbies to get in to. Downloading .pk3s, modding, configging, mousefixes, irc...

I love how the fundamental basics of getting started on CPMA suddenly becomes "difficult" after QL is released...

Mind=blown.

Just like leaving the house without a phone is "difficult" for a lot of people. You can call it being spoilt.

Or you can simply admit that not being connected is actually a disadvantage these days, considering that the genuine needs of the general public have shifted since 1995. Calling people back because you missed an important call is a major pain in the ass, especially when the window to call them is limited to working hours or some other limitation. Missing business is even worse, provided you have some.

Not to call you a hypocrite, but how often do you purposely leave your phone at home, because you could simply do without it, or simply see no advantage to being reachable?

Suppose starting their cars without the electric starter is "difficult" for a lot of people- all you need to do is turn the crankshaft or push the car themselves. You can call it being spoilt.

Thanks for proving my point, I guess?

With the thousands of maps, gamemode alterations, custom skins, the majority of them are not used. People bitch all the time for extra QL maps, but neglect the many solid maps already there; you can bring in every single map made for Q3 into QL, and Overkill, DM6, ZTN, HUB and DM20 will still be the ones played most often. It's nice to have many of something, but what's the point if you won't be playing it. What is this content advantage that Q3 has over QL specifically? Look at the competitive CPMA map pool- you can fill the game with every Pro-T2 ever made and no one will play them anyway, the novelty gamemodes and ruleset alterations will be left forgotten after a few hours and the cosmetic changes won't ever be used once the player decides to config for visibility.

Also, don't start with "Mind=blown" comments. It shouldn't take much common sense to realise that having everything that is relevant in one spot is a far better approach, rather than making the user piece the game together from 4 different IKEA chains just to get in a server, no matter how oldschool you are. I grew up in the days where mods where the rage. It was fun, sure, and dicking about for a few days in some random mod I'd just discovered was great, but times have moved on. It's comfortable for you, seeing as you know what you enjoy playing, which is CPMA- the new guy won't know what he'll enjoy playing, because he hasn't even touched the damn game, and he especially won't have made the comparison between all the choices that are already out there due to it being a 14 year old platform (likely just a little younger than the player to begin with). Nice of you to have decided for him what he should play, as you stated in your opening sentence, but step back and realise that ease-of-use is a legitimate field of study in its own right. Hell, I did various iterations of it in college every year for four years- not driving the customer away by making them jump through hoops to enjoy YOUR product on THEIR time is sort of a big deal. Don't forget the times where servers ran on old patches, mismatching mod versions and same core games had multiple different clients. And didn't having many mods segment the user base to begin with anyway?

Having populated pubs for the fresh blood is great. A simplified game as a gateway is not bad either. CPMA sadly doesn't tick either box. Not for the newcomer, anyway.

With the thousands of maps, gamemode alterations, custom skins, the majority of them are not used competitively*

Fixed that for you.

Also, don't start with "Mind=blown" comments. It shouldn't take much common sense to realise that having everything that is relevant in one spot is a far better approach, rather than making the user piece the game together from 4 different IKEA chains just to get in a server, no matter how oldschool you are.

Who said anything about making the user piece together the game? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of this entire discussion?

fraglove.com

?

It's a good idea, but not really well-thought out.

- Requires people to spend $20 on a 10-year-old game. Fail.
- Zero to no marketing / advertising efforts. Fail.
- No events. Fail...

Most importantly, why would a newbie spend $20 on buying Quake3 when they can go to quakelive.com for free and/or get a pro/premium account there where it's clearly ALOT more active?

Also, remember, QL used to be 100% free, and didn't start off with a premium/pro pay model. If it did what fraglove is doing by urging its new users to spend $20 to try from the start, it would've more than likely failed.

Most importantly, why would a newbie spend $20 on buying Quake3 when they can go to quakelive.com for free and/or get a pro/premium account there where it's clearly ALOT more active?

you said it

hahaha rofl lol

trolls gonna troll...

lol troll hahaha

Posting in a serious thread.

i for example dont even know wtf this cpma is .... why would some1 like me who just started quake with ql..cause im sure there are many others out there want to switch game ? how do i even know that i wont enjoy ql more?

> how do i even know that i wont enjoy ql more?

Because you'll play something else and realize "Hmm I enjoy this a lot more" or "I think the other one is a lot more enjoyable"... Or even... "I enjoy both of these! I'll play both!". You don't have to choose one. 8)

you need to put pak0.pk3 in some folder, download cpma version 1.434 (dunno link, prly need to ask around here for someone to upload it to a filehoster), extract cpma version 1.4543 not to baseq3, but a separate folder in your q3 folder (wait, where did i mention to make a q3 folder), download pointrelease 1.31 or 1.31c depending on which mod/server to play, exec pointrelease 1.31d while you look for a modified q3 exe that supports raw input and modern mods, get the q3 mappack, get ztn, get ra3 mappack, get cpm mappack 1 and cpm mappack 2, dunno about defrag, put them in baseq3, look at the config, it's fucked, you need to download fox or noctis config and configure that shit while looking for m_speed and sensitivity, ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXISTS!, then try to double click modded q3 exe and enter serial or not depending which mod to play i guess, look at the server browser, empty, doesn't matter, get mirc and pester people until they tell you the secret q3 server ips open console, connect:2001:0DB8:AC10:FE01:0000:0000:0000:0000, no one there, 2bad, try pickup channels, fuck config is fucked and why is my mousesensitivty weird, doesn't matter recalculate the sens depending on tan(fov) vertical to horizontal and check if you didn't mistake m_speed with sensitivity you shitnoob

now explain that to people who've never seen irc, don't know what an exe is or how to navigate to the baseq3 folder

You didn't explain where CPMA keeps erroring because you are missing a pak file, have a wrong version pk file or it's just having a bad day and FUCK YOU.

http://kickass.to/quake-3-arena-cpma-rar-t7738075.html

ready 2 use... thing is that there are like 4 seeders right now...

word.

haha, a bit over-exaggerating much?

I feel alot of this stuff can be simplified through a centralized web hub especially if we can get everyone on the same point release (preferably the most up to date: 1.32).

Just look at how quakelive.com does it. ;)

In regards to mouse sensitivty / configging, things like that. Well, that problem exists in all games, even QL. Its something players learn naturally over time with experience. However, again, with a central web-interface I can definitely see something done that allows them to more easily modify / read certain parameters within their config.

Sorry, but you're basically opting for a second fraglove.com. It's a centralized webhub/frontend for CPMA, and it failed, partly because that pak0.pk3 issue still exists.

Yes, it failed for a number of reasons I plan on addressing. For starters, it appears as though the owner looks like he just put up his website and expected it to become an instant hit without any actual effort. With 0/16 servers as the first thing you see with no signs of improvement, of course it'd fail lol.

My experience was all of that, but even worse!

Turned out when I wanted to try out CPMA, they have just released a new version just month prior. So I've downloaded version like 1.65 with some map pack, but ALL the servers were kicking me out because they were 1.63 or 1.64 (numbers are made up).

There was absolutely no way to download old version anywhere. What I did is find (on 5th page of Google Search) a guy who was mirroring the official paks but renamed to contain version. So there was a link on his site to cpma-1.65.whatever.zip, which I copied, pasted, changed to 1.64 and it downloaded. There was no link anywhere but I hacked my way in, yay!

Thanks to that I could join like 1/3 of the servers. And most of them were saying I need files I already had, but with different size. So I had to connect to 10 servers in a row to find one with downloading enabled, so I finally got some paks and maps and were able to connect to a server with some player inside.

All in all, it took me 2 days to connect to a CPMA server, where I played for few minutes, decided the only good thing it had was voting menu and quit to never try that shitty mod again.

Many times I was standing in front of a wall that no non-techie (hi hitsu) would pass. That community really goes to great lengths to make it impossible for anyone new to join them.


Why QL?
- there is only one version
- everyone knows where it is
- every player has it
- every server has it
- everything updates at the same time
- everything updates automatically
- if you miss a map, it's downloaded with HTTP from a CDN
- I don't need to even think about any of that!

I didn't even know how great QL is until I wanted to play CPMA.

Misleading story imo, it might have been like that back in 2008 or so but nowadays it's just 1 installer: http://www.playmorepromode.org/

and pak0.pk3: https://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bpak0.pk3+intitle:index+%2B457M

The fact that you (and others) still have no idea what CPMA is over a decade later means that there is still room for successfully marketing this project to newcomers who have never been exposed to it (or other great Q3 mods).

some ways q3 is not infinitely better:

centralised hub containing the game, all updates, maps, gamemodes, servers, friendslist, stats, forums and news. automatically updating so everyone plays the same version. upgraded engine and gui. extensive input options with the new accel, power, offset and raw input. community mods like qlranks and prism. anti-cheat that doesn't lag. developer support...

aside from gtv, defrag, dedicated servers, the sexy smoothness of q3 and subjective gameplay alterations I don't know how you can say ql is inferior. overall I'd say it's much better.

if you are a coder then take the direction of the qlranks or prism guys and develop something we can use in ql. that way you don't split the community which is what you are against yet exactly what would happen if you realised your ambitions.

and dude the guys here might seem like they're trolling and well, they are, but they know quake better here than anywhere else and if your idea wasn't a little ridculous you would get a better response. tread new ground, we're already living in the past.

As you all know, Q3 is infinitely better than QL in every way

/...

nobody is quitting ql for q3(well, besides the occasional cpmer/defragger)
q3 and ql are practically the same game and ql is free, ffs.
going backwards isn't going to do a damn thing because not enough people will follow you. we need a new game to make quake grow.

tldr
posting in a raythenoob thread

going backwards isn't going to do a damn thing because not enough people will follow you. we need a new game to make quake grow.

I dont know, QL can be seen as going backwards in alot of ways to be honest.

Yet it lives...Hmmm....

It's called Quake LIVE. Of course it lives.

No

militia > q4max

only good thing cpma did was netcode. i would like to see it in ql, combined with weaker lg

imo cpm made a really good feature called mvd, multiview pov demos. that's really brilliant and it would just need to keep being developed to get a better demo support.

Have you ever seen rfactor's replay fridge? you can go thru the demo with a seeking bar just like in youtube and cut it at points you want. Can't believe this hasn't been done before in quake, everyone loves sharing their highlights.

actually i find mvd annoying :-)

nope, didnt know about the second feature. it sounds nice

mvd annoying? cos it's jerky? you can fix that with values of cg_nudge

thanks for tip, didn't know that)

small values, try from -10 to 10 or something, i think higher values wont really make it better

it distracts me :b

mvd w/ tdm is amazing, son.
amazing.....

like i care about tdm.

like i didn't forget who i was talking too.

your loss, buddy

well, i guess its nice feature for tdm, but on the other hand - its a fucking 4 times mroe distraction than multi view in duel

youre plain dumb, should rather save my breath..

I wonder if we will ever see mvd's in QL :/

The guy obviously never watched a close game of pro-nodm9 with players like cooller,jibo,cypher or av3k.It wasnt just about watching your favorite players POV, but the ability to switch to the other guy in the middle of the game.If your fav. player was behind and had to catchup in those last minutes, but had the upper hand in items aswell as in control, it fucking buggered everyone to see how the opponent will react, how is he going to +back his game, what is he thinking at that moment... you just dont get all of this info from casters except "OMG DAT ROCKET, OMG THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL", please just stfu so I can watch the game.People literally studied MVDs!!

That's right. I mean having casters and streams to bring QL to more people is great. But not having the ability to watch the game with your own config and HUD, and to toggle if necessary a synchronized audio commentary (in English, Russian, French, German, and so on), is really a big downside.

Does this not work very well? (Not tried it myself, just looked promising from the initial news post) http://www.esreality.com/post/2435807/fragtv-beta-release/

Oh, I haven't tried that as well yet :|

its a free world, and i can like or dislike whatever i want.

so maybe shut the fuck up, you close minded twat

its a free world, and i can like or dislike whatever i want.

Disliking something youve never experienced is plain dumb, dumbfuck. :)

so maybe shut the fuck up, you close minded twat

Disliking something youve never experienced is plain dumb

heres your mistake, i did watch few quake 3 demos, mostly of av3k. i didnt like it.

ow, seems like you really are close minded twat after all.

and just how exactly can watching a random demo after 5years be related to live gtv play??Not fully understanding the game,tournament,hype or the situation the match was taken from??Dumb polak is dumb. :D

who said anything about gtv moron?

cpma demos are recorded with multiview

<3 :DDDDDD

adolescent rage polak, are you going jamerio on me?Damn you really enlightened me with this one, I had no clue??Maybe you should start giving quake lessons yourself.

so... you noticed how stupid your post were, and now gonna try and change the whole conversation into a troll?

just in case you're not honourable enough, and wont admit you did talk nothing but shit, lets sum up the conversation:

hitsu, the king of esr: i dont like multiview
some random: you're dumb
hitsu, the king of esr: i have the right to not like it
some random: you didnt even use it
hitsu, the king of esr: yes i did
some random: but you didnt watch gtv [which i actually did, just not quake one]
hitsu, the king of esr: we werent talking about gtv
some random: trolololololol, jamerio + more bullcrap


i would advise either saying you're sorry, and did misread my post, or just vanishing into the darkness of esr.

admit to what idiot??I still think u r dumb.

thats your right to think whatever you want about me, but in this case you talked crap, and nothing more.

and what exactly is this crap I was talking about son?

for example stating i never did experiance multiview :-)

well, i guess its nice feature for tdm, but on the other hand - its a fucking 4 times mroe distraction than multi view in duel

judging from this post.. I sincerely doubt.

I have no clue whats confusing/distracting to you from TBEs post.See that view was meant to be used in relation with this special feature we had in cpma called "coachinvite", but I guess you really thought someone actually watches demos in that 4pov mode. :D

edit:
not even being aware of the benefits pretty much means you didnt even experience the full potential of mvd.

srsly? more bullshit? just give up.

i dont give a fuck about tdm view or duel view. i just dont like it because of reason i said earlier. and im fully aware of benefits. but just because running is healthier it doesnt mean i will run 10km to work.

and what exactly is this reason that you dont like it??It distracts you???Shit son, u r dump.People go to school for a reason, so should you.

i never been in a school that would teach to analise two problems at once

Shit son, u r dump

.

The uber demo tool of myT does the parsing a cutting.

yeah well, im sure there are plenty stuff made from the community to whatever, my point is, i don't understand why the developers of the game itself didn't create something like the rfactor's replay fridge so far

10/10 would rofl again


Edit:
Just a call for action will only give you people laughing at you. If you had actually contributed something worthwhile the responses would be much different I believe.

That's unfortunate, I didnt have much to contribute initially because nothing solid has been drafted yet. I was hoping to hear your ideas. Feel free to contribute!

See no one cares to contribute if all you provide is very opinionated ideas representing a wast minority of the QL player base.

You call this YOUR project and yet ask people to help while actually you just want others to do the thinking and doing for you without doing jack shit. Okay people in charge of projects have usually have others with them to do things better than they could but at least have some idea and guidance for what you are proposing to do.

You just sound like one of the self entitled generation cunts.

I represent no one. I don't need anyone's help here, however, helping hands are always welcomed. I am fully capable of developing my own rival product. If you wish to add something useful to the discussion, feel free to do so and I will take it under consideration.

I intend on making something happen in the near future. Stay tuned.

Good luck then, just prove me wrong and don't be one of those people who only talk about grand things without ever going through with it.

Maybe you should share your project plans. I'm sure there is more than just "draw noobs from ql"?

I dont have any actual concrete project plans per say. This thread is a simple brainstorm open for ideas. Feel free to contribute!

Aw yeah keep up the good work bro, let's grow cpma and the girth of our penises.

This gif pretty much sums up what ive gathered from this thread. :D

I am fed up with how ID handled Q3's successor (QL) and would like to start a project to bring back Q3. As you all know, Q3 is infinitely better than QL in every way.

This is simply not true.

If you cannot at least acknowledge the many things that QL has brought to the game then you really have no business entertaining such lofty goals.

he probably ment the gameplay mechanics of the game.. surely ql is a free game and easy to access, but brings shitty routing, lack of mvd,crappy weapon balance etc.

crappy weapon balance

QL has many problems, but that ain't one of them.

sorry, but shit netcode combined with that tiny splash radious that everyone can just bounce off from it is crap weapon balance..

Everyone in CPMA is watching MVDs

And we are just sitting here with shitty 720p video on demand supplied with stupid casters, annoying clips, and pointless interviews

not only does this shitty 720p stream stutter, but like you said we cannot silence these annoying casters, cannot hear the ingame sounds because of them and I cannot follow or stay focused to the specific game, thinking what the player im watching is trying to do.I used to watch to every tournament back then, and the pair I wanted.. now its just fucking unwatchable.

gtvchat 0 + cup of tea = priceless!!

word.

I believe the core reason that people play QL over Q3 is centralization. Nothing more. If we can capture this, then we can rid ourselves of ID's hold over the community once and for all.

CPMA is better than QL
OSP is better than QL
RA3 is better than QL
3WAVE is better than QL

QL tries to imitate all of Q3's perfections, but has failed and continues to fail miserably at each and every attempt.

If we can capture this, then we can rid ourselves of ID's hold over the community once and for all.

Because id is this evil, omnipresent corporation enslaving the humanity. So evil in fact, that they let you play their game for free.

If you want to do something, do it. So far you've proven yourself to only be good for running your mouth.

Also, I don't think you've explained, adequately that is, as to how QL is just so terrible that it's almost a crime to be playing it.

poor polar bears

Whoa. Is that how you feel?

I never said it was terrible, just that Q3 is the superior game for obvious reasons.

Sadly, ID killed Q3 when they released QL. They released a substandard product and wooed nearly everyone from Q3 into jumping ship with fancy marketing gimmicks and ploys, when instead, they should have put efforts towards improving Q3's existing predicament. Several years later, QL is facing nearly the same predicament that Q3 was facing right before QL ensured its imminent end.

QL has become stale. After the recent piss poor choices made by the development team over the year with no signs of improvement, along with the disappointing QCON event we've received this year, it feels like it's time we start jumping shit from this failure of a game and do our own thing.

But what are those obvious reasons, is what I'm asking.

You keep going on how Q3 and all its mods are superior. That may be, but what I want to know, is how you arrived at that conclusion.

Seriously?

Defrag > Race
RA3 > Clan Arena + Red Rover
UFT > Freeze Tag
3wave > Attack and Defend + 1FCTF
CPMA > PQL

I honestly don't know anyone who prefers the QL version of any of these mods over the rawness of Q3 versions.

you forgot the biggest disadvantage of ql:

it fucking united players from 4 quake games and 100 mods.



so basiclly - fuck off, noone wants q3 with cpma.

T H I S
H
I
S

told by hitsu - coming to cinemas near you...

Nailed it. gj.

There are quite a few reasons but I think the root of them all is that QL is free to play. Unless you use an alternative to id's resources that can't be distributed (at least they exist, regardless of how they are perceived by the community), you won't be able to achieve that. F2P gave QL its community­. F2P removes an enormous barrier for new players interested in the game and helps hinder/prevent the playerbase's decline.

F2P implies that I intend to charge / introduce other payment models with added features/benefits for paying users (which I don't). The F2P approach, if anything, lost QL a good core of it's fanbase considering they initially introduced the game as 100% free, and it's especially taking its toll now that they are locking away core maps such as ZTN, DM6, etc. out of the rotation every now and then.

QL's playerbase is definitely in decline.

The subscriptions since then have surely been up, and I remember a reply from syncerror that the matches played (as well as a hint from sirax - qlranks.com) has been up as well.

What's the problem with 24 $$ per year to get new stuff, possibly more competitive action etc..?

As the system was back then, it was all just dm6/ztn/dm6/ztn/dm6/ztn/dm20 and the new core maps have been locked out because no one played on premium servers.

What's the problem with 24 $$ per year to get new stuff, possibly more competitive action etc..?

It wouldn't be a problem at all if most of the "stuff" introduced was actually new, not decade old maps from Q3 finally being brought into the game or half-assed iterations of older Q3 mods.

the new core maps have been locked out because no one played on premium servers.

Lol I wonder why.

Man, I apreciate your efforts to take up what you like.

I would love to play CPMA etc.. It would be awesome for training more, and trying it to learn some different stuff I can't learn from QL.

Anyway the installation process, the fact you can't find servers and everything else makes CPMA really frustating.

As I said I like the mod and everything, but if I want to play something related t CPMA then I just search for a moded server in quake live, most of the time there's atleast one... join.. easy enough.

There might be more people trying to play CPMA trough quake live with PQL settings servers than on actual CPMA client.

As I said I would enjoy playing, but, that installation process is just frustating, me , and all the people, want just a client (even web client) that we can download, install and jump right into the game.

Without mods, files, packs, maps, IRC and all that stuff.

That's why people don't play CPMA even if some of them would like it.

Once again I apreciate your efforts but right now, using this way it would not change much.

There might be more people trying to play CPMA trough quake live with PQL settings servers than on actual CPMA client.

cpma = q3 mod
cpm = ruleset with aircontrol and other stuff

LEARN IT FFS

Calm down,

I said I didn't even have the possibility to try that due to the frustation that comes during the installation process.

Also I always said I'm not an old quake player, If I don't know stuff I always admit it. I'm sorry for this but I can't come already knowing everything.

Also put my point of view as a new player view. As I see it . Also the other new comers see it.

Thanks and sorry for the mistake.

As I said I would enjoy playing, but, that installation process is just frustating, me , and all the people, want just a client (even web client) that we can download, install and jump right into the game.

Hey man, I know that feel.

I'm working on starting a project that will make that dream a reality, and hopefully it will turn out to be far more popular than QL. Stay tuned bro.

Nice, good luck with that :) !

lol cpma

ql is better than cpma for vq3'ers imo. Now if we talk about ca, we need ra3 back. Problem is downloading of maps, and server hosting + finding servers

idea: quake3comeback.com, download ra3, OSP(for vq3) and cpma for promoders only, even 3wave for ctf?. I know that's a split, but in my mind that would be the best way to do it. In any way, you will get FRACTURE since how dedicated servers works instead of centralized ql id servers plus for different gametypes different mods are just better. cpma for all is just idiotic.

plus you well need an allseeingeye alternative, since they shut down, no one has something that collected as many servers as they did. qtracker is the best alternative, but still don't have all servers available.

you will also need irc channels. q3comeback.vq3, q3comeback.cpm, q3comeback.ra3, with pickup bots and locked servers, plus official q3comback public servers for every mod.

edit: in any way you need money for servers, you can't make a comeback with no servers to play on. Someone has to pay for those, right now it's ID! that's why we play ql

Everything needs to be centralized on the website in order to compete w/ QL. IRC channels, server browser, etc. This way, players dont have to struggle finding servers, maps, mods, etc. It's all in one place so there's no hassle.

IRC is hardly an essential, and I dont expect IRC to be used for most players unless they are playing competitively (pickups, etc.), which is as it should be. However, the ability to socialize / track your stats / progress is a must and is something that makes QL so addicting for alot of newbs, so obviously something like that needs to be built in.

In regards to an allseeingeye alternative, a web-based server browsing solution would be the best approach. There are still a few Q3 master servers still running which would allow this to work.

Obviously money is going to be an issue, but honestly I would rather shell out a couple hundred for quality servers instead of paying money to put up with ID's on and off routing issues.

I find it adorable that you are trying to compete with id using their own product.

What I find even more adorable, that you've got it in your head that you'll throw independent derivative codebases into the mix on top of the core game.

Solid business model.

Thanks, but nothing solid / set in stone as of yet. Technically, the proposed centralized web-interface idea would be my product. I imagine it would work similarly to QL, except it would simply launch the user's own quake client. Atleast thats all I can think of atm.

*Not about CPMA but about potential completely free, community made Quake 3/Live -like game:

In 2005 id software released Q3A code as open source (John Carmack decided to release all the idtech engines as open-source).
The community worked on the code and created ioQuake3. It has several improvements over quake 3.

This can be used with original quake3 pk3s (if you bought quake3), or as a free game with community created maps, models, sounds, textures and other assets - Open Arena. Unfortunately OA has many flaws, for example doesn't include bright skins by default because the OA project leader didn't want to.

But as this is opensource, it can be pushed step forward - AfterShock has account system, stats, friendlists, server browser on the web and so on. So it's similar to QL and free. The interest in AS is small, but it can be used for further development (or someone can start from the base - ioQuake3).

the sooner you, and people like you, realise that there won't be a nonquake game taking over quake live the better.(no, not even died-before-reborn-then-died-again)

it's gonna save you a massive amount of time that you can spend masturbating instead of looking for the next arena fps.

"nonquake" game? It's in fact free, open sourced, upgraded quake3 with community created content, that can't disappear one day like QL can.

It already DISAPIRDDD

quakelive could be infinitely better if premium account disappeared. paying to play normal maps is stupid and nowadays its pretty much a requirement. Paying for pro is the only thing that makes sense, allowing you to spawn servers is truely worth paying for, paying to even find a game is not (especially cause often servers are empty)

tldr: stop limiting maps to paying customers and maybe QL will have more ppl playing it seriously. No offense to spacecamp dm6 or anyone, just my 2 cents.

I disagree, I think they should get rid of free to play completely, get rid of whiners.

ah now that 1.6 had a comeback, cod 1 and bf 2142 have been revived, we want to see the same success in quake.



















































wait that never happened

Not sure why all of a sudden i see a dozen threads discussing a hypothetical return to cpma but i can't restrain myself from facepalming everytime i do. Yes CPMA is superior netcode wise, and yes the engine feels smoother, but this doesn't weigh up to what Quake Live offers in terms of match making and stats tracking. I'm a CPM player myself (just love the game mechanics too much) but i understand why QL players stick to their own turf. All those CPMA fanatics who roam these forums trying to convert QL players to CPMA players should think twice before posting their thoughts, eventually it will yield the opposite effect and give the CPM community a bad name. The way i see it, a unification of the quake community is only possible with something new that combines a little bit of everything like reborn, but for now this is vaporware and wishful thinking.

where the fuck are you ?

Swallowed by real life stuff atm... work, gf, and school on top of that. But i'll be back and attend some of those cpm duel cups, perhaps!

don't come back then, cpm is for when you don't have any of that x)

Thanks to all those who have contributed their thoughts towards my idea in this thread so far. I knew I was taking a risk starting a thread like this but I would really like to see something like this happen.

Now, let's forget about distribution of files for a minute and let's focus on what gives QL it's edge: It's centralization.

Ive read alot of comments where people would like to see OSP, and some Ra3, etc...Well, how hard can it be to for us (the fans) to create a website which focuses on centralizing the Q3 playerbase for ALL mods? This website would need to be able to compete with QL in terms of social networking, server browsing, stat tracking, etc. Basically, QL done right.

Technically we wouldn't need to distribute any Q3 files to others as so long as we are able to use the website as a hub where the player can launch their own legit Quake3.exe file located on their PC.

As far as I know, such a website has never truly existed. (pls dont say fraglove as that was a pitiful attempt at competing with QL)

I mean, if we have people who are able to develop awesomeness such as QLPrism, why cant similar efforts be put towards a project with ALOT more potential?

I feel like something like this could work with the right development team behind it, and I don't mind putting towards $$$ if there is enough interest.

and I don't mind putting towards $$$ if there is enough interest.

I don't think the community would be willing to give enough money and/or time into such a big project for it to be completed. It took a long time and many people to get QL done. Of course, we can assume that it was terribly managed and that the developers were bad but even if the community did better it would be costly.

Also, don't forget that if we have something centralized, decisions will have to be made at one point or another that won't satisfy everyone as it will be the same for everyone. Without a strong central authority, like id is with QL, that can lead to big problems.

Also, don't forget that if we have something centralized, decisions will have to be made at one point or another that won't satisfy everyone as it will be the same for everyone. Without a strong central authority, like id is with QL, that can lead to big problems.

I've thought about this, which is why my proposed idea allows for players to choose to use the centralized web-based hub or not.

Without QL's centralized web-based hub, it would be nothing. Garbage. As a stand-only game ,it's worse than Q3. The only reason it works is because of that one feature.

The entire purpose of centralizing the functionality of Q3 would be to draw in more players by having a web-based interface which houses the most desired features of the game, which would make it easy for people to just hop in and play or hit up a friend for a game.

However, for those who are already familiar with its ins and outs, they would be free to play Q3 however they see fit. I imagine there would be benefits / perks to using the centralized Q3 hub, but it would be more of a convenience thing so that it's just as easy (or almost as easy) to play Q3 as it is QL.

i might have missed where you stated the advantages of q3 over ql but for my sake could you list exactly what these advantages are which would make this project worthwhile.

My man, there's simply too many to list.

From netcode, content, LAN ability, various server locations, more customization such as not having to pay for clans, etc....

Some people see these advantages as disadvantage, however, every year QL tries (and fails) to imitate its predecessor's awesomeness. QL is nothing more than an inferior mashed up wannabe.

I pity you if you've never experienced the awesomeness that is Q3. I hope one day I can show you the light so that you can see just how weak QL is in comparison to Q3. One day....

'content'...? by that i guess you mean maps and gamemodes. we've got enough maps and new ones being introduced often enough. gamemodes... hmm, defrag and ra3? i had fun with that american football mod for q3 and urban terror but really it's not that big a loss. netcode in ql is fine for a range of pings unlike osp. dedicated servers would be nice for the regions that don't have access to resonably close servers or have no servers. no problems with the current restrictions for me in europe however.

you sound like a fanboy by the way, not a project lead. "QL is nothing more than an inferior mashed up wannabe." is a disservice to what id has accomplished. it's streamlined everything and removed all the problems from actually playing quake as it was before while bringing in some unfortunate restrictions. it's far from the level you put it at though.

i experienced the awesomeness that was q3 aswell as the problems. maybe you should acknowledge the awesomeness that ql has brought to the table so you might understand the issues that you're going to face with a project like this better.

if it wasn't for quakelive i feel like quake would be nowhere right now. what do you think?

removed all the problems from actually playing quake

such as?

i experienced the awesomeness that was q3 aswell as the problems. maybe you should acknowledge the awesomeness that ql has brought to the table so you might understand the issues that you're going to face with a project like this better.

im not a fanboy, im just saying its about time we realize what an inferior product QL is.

Saying QL is better than Q3 is like saying Q4 is better than Q3. yeah they both added their little tweaks and what not here and there, but overall, they have yet to reach the amount of impact and success that Q3 attained. Both are huge letdowns tbh.

Honestly I doubt any MP FPS game will ever top the sheer awesomeness of Q3. QL and Q4 are no different, just substandard imitators.

if it wasn't for quakelive i feel like quake would be nowhere right now. what do you think?

i think not much has changed for quake since QL has been introduced. nothing major has been done really to promote Quake as an FPS. if anything, its gotten worse. Q3's MP scene had way more going on for it in its heydey. Q3 breeds legends, QL breeds noname wannabes. Alot of people I come across have never even heard about quakelive, but you can be damn sure they know what Q3, who the top pros are, and the impact they had on the series.

it's already been mentioned the difficulties getting quake up and running and joining a server. you talk about golden times but q3 was dying long before the arrival of ql so infact it revived the game if anything. how will remaking the same game persuade people to create the golden times mk 2? it didn't work for ql so why would it work this time? i agree with you that ql hasnt had enough promotion but how would YOU change this? i think you can't differentitate between the great times that you remember and the game itself.

you talk about golden times but q3 was dying long before the arrival of ql so infact it revived the game if anything.

QL put the final nail in the coffin for Q3. Sure, you and others may have seen QL as the miraculous revival of a dying game, but I saw it as simply postponing the inevitable. Fast forward to present day, and QL is nearly just as dead as Q3 was now thanks to shitty management decisions.

how will remaking the same game persuade people to create the golden times mk 2? it didn't work for ql so why would it work this time? i agree with you that ql hasnt had enough promotion but how would YOU change this?

I don't plan on remaking anything. Why re-invent the wheel? That was QL's first mistake.

At this point in time, Q3 should be easily attainable throughout the internet. My idea is to simply link these resources together through a centralized web-interface (similar to quakelive.com), eliminating the difficulties mentioned above.

In regards to promotion/marketing/funding, for now let's just say I know the right people.

This obviously isn't going to be something that can be done overnight, but I think the payoff would be worth it in the long run if efforts were put towards an allout q3 revival / centralization project.

From netcode

Can you elaborate that one? Just to prove that you actually have a clue and aren't parroting.

Oh god, you must be part of this new generation that thinks QL netcode is the bestest evar!!!

No, but it is good enough and better than its reputation. Not a reason for hundreds/thousands of players to switch to a different game. Neither are the other points you listed.

So you're saying QL feels better than CPMA now? lol...

No I did not say that. "lol" indeed.

OK, so you acknowledge the CPMA netcode is superior?

well, ql netcode is not bad, but cpma had the best fucking netcode i ever seen.


i never did hardcore testing to check the highest playable ping, but on 80 ping you hit like 20 max.

http://i.imgur.com/jpe06zD.jpg

that guy isn't the best dodger around, but it was registering hits pretty well despite the ping

SuperHUD editor,netcode,LAN-spawning/Domestic servers,gameplay mechanics,MVD/GTV,less buggy,free maps etcetc.

Sure there are LANs,but the essence of quake was to be able to play with your friend neighbour, just to throw a couple of duels in the evening in your garage, not the DH/Qcon events that only couple of people attend and even those are one and the same faces over and over again.Furthermore lots of people dislike stuttering streams with annoying casters, personally I cant stand these.Havent watched an entire tournament since 2009.Its also difficult for me to grasp why in 2013, there is still this mouse bug, when fast moves are performed, x-hair just points down to bottom view.. And I just wont go down to routing problems, because this obviously became a normal practice with ql, ping randomly fluctuating for 30-40ping, depending on the day.Also update takedowns etcetc. , youre asking silly questions.

i covered most of those as advantages of q3. i wanted to see what he thought more than anything. you should have watched this years quakecon, perfect streaming save for one moment where we looked at the wall for a minute and it had quality casting. also it seems routing issues in serbia are far worse than here if you fluctuate by that amount.

What youre describing are personal experiences that do not apply to majority.. shit routing is a fact regardless where Im living(not in Serbia).And last Qcon I attempted to watch was this:

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/18090-QuakeC...ra_matters

I remember being awake till 2-3 in the morning, then went to bed because it became pointless to me.If I recall correctly they had electrical dropouts and what not, however I heard the next day from some people that it was played somewhere late in the morning.Felt stupid and silly for spending my time on that, and they didnt even bother streaming CTF finals ROFL.Just horrible experience, dont want to spend my time for these stupid streams, just plain loss of my time.When we had GTV, games were played smoothly and fast, simply picked the pair I want to watch and thats it, even to think comparing QL next to Q3 is a joke.

edit:

Bottom line is I spent HOURS AND HOURS being raped by those retarded commercial brakes,shitty movie clips and hipster music instead of watching players play their games.Never again!

in that case you would have been dissapointed by the hilarity of the run up to this years qcon final. nothing to do with quake, immensly frustrating but strangely watchable. luckily it was a good final. gtv was awesome, no doubting that. i'd rather have it then not but twitch has made streaming a good alternative these days.

"A WORTHY EFFORT, BUT FUTILE..."

As a q3 player for 13 years, I say you have same chance to bring back q3 as q2. You have a chance, if you are billionare and will make 3 year CPL look like champs around a world like PK had. Otherway you have 0.01% chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM

Casual players are looking for something easy to jump into, along with having certain features that are very attractive, such as stat tracking, integrated friends list/chat, rewards/achievements and many more.

There really is no reason for them to move to a game like Q3. What exactly are the selling points to attract casual QL players into Q3?

Nowadays, the only way you're getting the competitive community as a whole to play Q3 over QL is if you host consistent money tournaments with decent prize pools. Even though the current QL tournament scene isn't exactly thriving, we still have tournaments such as 125fps, Sulit, FACEIT, Dreamhack, QuakeCon. Competitive players need something to player for, whether it's tournaments or ELO (lol).

This is coming from a long time CPM/VQ3 player.

You have it all wrong. Getting the competitive community to play Q3 isnt as important nor as difficult as getting the casual newb to do it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Unless you manage to bring good tournaments on Q3, I don't think you'll see the competitive players join either.

Competitiveness will occur naturally overtime within the casual userbase if the community is growing. Tournaments, etc will follow.

Actually it's the opposite, if big Q3 tournaments popup, players will follow. Current competitive QL players have NO incentive to move back to Q3. What are they going back too? A large majority of the QL competitive player base came from Q3 and continues to play QL for a reason.

Of course there wouldn't be any incentive for playing Q3 AS IT IS. It's a barren wasteland left for ruin in the wake of QL. Why would anyone move back? However, I do think a few competitive QL players would atleast be interested in looking at a proper web-based version of it that would be able to compete with QL and corrects all of its shortcomings. After all, QL is simply Q3 in a browser for the end-user's convenience.

I understand that people are reluctant to change, and that QL is the first browser FPS of it's kind, but that doesn't mean it's without flaws. QL is proof of concept that something like this could be done. As a developer, I feel it's time we begin to take things into our own hands.

upgrade fraglove then?It lacked proper servers severely, otherwise ok.

Fraglove's interface is still too overly complex and requires the user to go through too many loops to get started which can be a major turnoff ESPECIALLY to those who have no idea what CPMA / Q3 / QUAKE is. It really appears to be a poorly thought out web application, seeming to only care about those who are already somewhat knowledgeable about what they're getting into.

http://q2online.net/action this is transparent and simple, 1 click to get it all.But the client is not that polished..

And considering that a person needs a copy of Q3.. unless if the mod is playable through demo, I dont see how much further you can improve this.

Here's one approach: http://esreality.com/post/2470490/bring-back-...pid2471366

It obviously is not the most morally sound way, but it gets the job done, and should a person ever come under legal pressure, they just need to make sure they're able to prove that they own in their possession a legit copy of the game. I can't see zenimax/id wasting money tracking down and prosecuting players for downloading a copy of a decade old game, which they own. And if they did, the case would probably get thrown out if the person is able to prove that they really do own a copy.

I don't prefer this approach and would hope there is another way, so I am open to other suggestions.

:D

well good luck, looking forward with what will pan out from this.

Which population are you trying to reach with this?

- People on ESR?
Nah 90% of them play pub ca from time to time, 9% play ql regularly and the 1% cpmers still play cpm.

- The competitive crowd?
While the situation isn't the best in QL, there's still hope left for it in this regard, with some more action from id. The viewers will play the same game as the pros as well, so a nope here as well, because your offer is even worse with the n.th Q3 mod.

- The people who "don't want to pay twice" and play mostly on standard servers or the 10 people who play hacked QL servers?
How would you plan to finance server costs? I can see some people switching there, but often enough it's either the technically uneducated crowd as well or "casual" quakers who just want some action.

No different to cpm(a) at the moment, a couple of servers with regulars and pickup players up while you have nowhere near the publicity as QL/id and growth will be 0 midterm.

The game (vq3 vs vql) is almost indistinguishable, and while I would tune some stuff in ql as well, population and ease of access is most important (infinitely more imporatant than shaft settings or a slightly different netcode) to the biggest part of the community.

- None of the above.

I love that video so much.

well it didn't go anywhere, just install the game and play.

No one will go through the effort of installing the game the normal way without some incentive first, which can only be achieved through web-based means, as proven by QL.

In short: It's not 1999. People are lazy nowadays, and everything needs to be automated through the web in order to sell.

also, people don't want to play q3 and you can't basically beg them to play cause you have noone to play with?

http://www.esreality.com/post/2472115/quake-5/#pid2472239

Posting in a scala thread

/...

I guess it never fully got off the ground?

You just went full walter

Is that you, Walter?

walter'd

:,-[[

Already sued?

Archive.

ouch gg

:p