?

According to the google results I have been quoting, interest in QL is right back around where it is with Q3. On the plus side, Q3 server activity seems to have increased a little, and never went down due to the release of QL. If nothing else, it's doubled the small community we had!

However, unless id release a client to be able to play QL on local, it going under would pretty much kill that second half of players. =/

but then again, if you'd actually look at the server browser instead of google you'd see that q3 has a lot less players than 1 year ago. (osp/cpma is meant)

Indeed, but even keeping up with gamespy stats, numbers have kept pretty even for the past 3 months, and the past month has seen a small increase in activity.

who cares about instagib?

The CA servers are as filled as ever. Perhaps those newbies who started with instagib went on to a bit more interesting game modes?

If UT and VQ3 are any indication, it's not likely.

http://trends.google.com/websites?q=quakelive...amp;sort=0

seems to have peaked somewhat in late march actually

And this is what happened prior to the use of that domain:
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=quakelive...amp;sort=0

That's idsoftware.com.....

I played QL quite a bit in recent days, and as far as I remember it was far, far away from being dead. I never had problems with finding people to play with in various gameplay modes. From what I've seen servers were heavily occupied most of the time.

On the other hand, Instagib is hardly a good example.

Instagib is hardly an accurate representation of Quake Live's liveliness. If your argument is that new players play instagib, they also play clan arena, FFA and CTF.

Let's see, what factors do we have?

Filter: instagib, time: 01:16.

Seems solid...

granite

Though if you would say that id shouldn't have made this open beta yet, I'd agree...

I would actually. but they did and now their user base is gone.

A perfect example if this is Tabula Rasa, which died before it's release because the open beta was shit. Fact is, you can't tell people to cope with a bad game because it's beta. People will not play a bad game (which I think QL isn't, but a lot of people do) and once they left a bad game, they won't ever return to it. Developers that go open beta with a half finished game, just don't get it.

well said.

Very well said.

Much Very well said

Maybe if they haven't wasted so many manhours on stuff like "playable on a browser" or stats or any other gimmicky crap.

Which kinda brings the question, where was id this past decade? If you let the "community" develop and expand the game, at the very least, don't come after a decade and bring a half-assed product. Yes, one could stay in q3/cpma to enjoy years of development but when "some" guy comes and says "If quakelive doesn't get millions of players we won't make quake 5", it kinda forces you to play it if you want quake 5, so makes it my "problem".

Couldn't they just repack all mods in a very easy-to-use "one click installation" with the most popular maps along wih it, create a good site with official ladder, _all maps_ and sortable by popularity, forums etc etc etc. About games in "your skill level", newbs play newbs, that's how it works. Only good thing about it, is that it doesn't let good players join a newb server and vent. The main problem on q3 is that it has 0 tutorials, which is terrible for a game that even "press forward to move" takes great skill, and that it's a pain to install everything you need to enjoy it. Recently my hdd got fucked, and if it doesnt' get fixed, it will actually take me a few seconds to think of everything i need to have everything installed for q3 again, and that after playing from the beginning...

Wish quake franchise was developed by valve or blizzard, you know, companies that kinda "care".

Blizzard is somewhat questionable when you look at how they handled WoW, but that could be blamed on the fact that they put old EQ devs in charge of the project. other than that, I agree.

how did they handle wow?

They decided to string people along with "we'll fix it next patch" for eternity instead of actually fixing anything.

imbalances, bugs or what?

A little from column A, a little from column B.

wow developers are probably more content-oriented. also, it's not like the game would die because of few imbalances.

They claim that PVP is just as important to them, but the latest expansion has pretty much destroyed PVP entirely. Just about everybody either switched to PVE or quit. They hired some of the worst people in MMO history to run the show. They got one of the lead developers from EQ who has a fetish for no-life-difficulty raid bosses, and the guy from SWG who caused the dreaded NGE fiasco.

that's what happens when you put too much effort into a game that's not meant to provide any depth to begin with.

sorry I disagree with you there. Not so much on the PVP part cuz i dont care much about that.

However the pvE part since WOTLK was shit because it was so damn easy, even the hardmodes. If they hired some guy who can make no-life die hard dungeons etc then thats good news.

There should always be one dungeon atleast that barely anyone can enter or finish, like 1-3% of the entire community. When I finished WOTLK before Ulduar got out i just realised this game is not challenging enough to play + having the best gear etc isnt so unique anymore because its too easy to get.

I think many people want a character that is unique. Who has items/gear that is so ultra rare etc that you can pronk with it in a city and everyone is drooling at you etc. Blizz kinda destroyed that after WOTLK which for me personally ruined all the fun and my
char is frozen right now, mayb someday it will be revived again

However the pvE part since WOTLK was shit because it was so damn easy, even the hardmodes. If they hired some guy who can make no-life die hard dungeons etc then thats good news.

Hmm? You say you disagree, but I didn't mention the quality of PVE at all. I was merely commenting on the fact that the people who haven't quit right now are the hardcore PVPers who figure that it's less broken than PVP, and since they've spent all their time in PVP, it's something new to do anyway.

I would agree with how easy WOTLK was.

Couldn't they just repack all mods in a very easy-to-use "one click installation"

OMG!!! You're gonna split the community!!! lmao....oh wait, stuff like private servers WILL actually split the community. Im sure most of the ql fanboys will be to blinded by their bias view to see it this way though. Just take a look at the average joe ql player who has been playing right along since open beta started. He will watch the amount of people in public servers get cut down quickly once a bunch of people start playing on private servers only.

This is also probably why ID has put private servers on the end of their to do list when it comes to ql. They see that it will divide up the players in one way or another but now they are going to be making off of private servers so in their view they no longer care about that matter.

The point of my post was that all ID should have done is bring all the communities in one common ground, the official site. If someone wants to find out about q3, he will go to the official site, not some obscure irc channel buried in quakenet...or broken links for maps etc...

Uniting everything and everyone. Re-read my post, i am talking about taking what the community had 10 years to build and nourishing it, under your official "wing".

Refer to http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1689545#pid1689545

lol the first part of that post was sarcasm but yes I agree that ql should be used to unite the q3 community under one easy_to_use platform. Quake 3 lasted through the years because of the modding community.

Its great how every VQ3 fan boy was touting how ql was gonna resurrect the q3 community which by the way is a good thing. So far its resurrected the ra3 community, the instagib community, and soon will resurrect the freezetag community. Thats all great but if try to suggest a voteable cpm gametype in ql then you are greeted with a very friendly "Go fuck yourself" in the form of "If you want to play cpm then go play cpma". It's so absurd to think of adding something that was popular in q3, into ql.

Yeah thats the spirit, all the popular mods are welcomed(but promode players must sit at the back of the bus and stick to their designated water fountains)

Thing is, they are looking to standardize the game. That's why they don't add too many different gametypes and variations of every gametype.

they are a game developer not a flipping societal behaviour specialist, for god sake!

Most of their player base probably views the game as pointless without private servers

I disagree, most of the ql players are newbie players. They will be playing on public servers even after private servers are available. Its easy to forget this if you surround yourself with in the competitive community. Im not saying their aren't a lot of ql players that want private servers but in comparison to the overall community they are a relativity smaller percentage. My basic point to the original post was that the newbie players will see less people on the public servers once private servers available. Which means less activity and a better chance that those newbie players will move on to another game that is more populated.

So you'd rather never see private servers just to keep a few more newbs playing the game? Most of them already stopped playing...the people playing now are people generally interested in the game-play and competition

Valve = all style no substance, they only appear to update games, what they do is add shiny things which they don't test (they don't even range check most things)

As for blizzard I dunno, never played any of their games (although that will change with Diablo 3 and maybe 2 if I can be bothered getting it in the mean time.)

Well yeah, but it's still something :P (also notice the "care" :D)
Diablo 2 shows its age in every corner but it's worth playing to have a reference for the much anticipated D3 Day.

Also, since noone comments on the rest of the stuff i said, i'll assume the announcement of "q3 reloaded" under my idea would get many more smiles around the world than quake live. Just to make me feel better. :D The whole thing stunk for me from the very beginning. No mod support + a feature that took _a long_ time to develop properly for which there was no demand in the market (playable in broswer).

You can now buy and download Diablo 2 directly from battle.net.

Bought it off g2play.net for $6.11 instead (d2 + expansion)

Edit: holy shit? D2 and the expansion off the blizzard site come to $40. Fucking pathetic.

i heard its pretty cheap on tpb

Okay so I'm downloading the games and I HAD TO USE NETLIMITER TO STOP THEM UPLOADING AT FULL SPEED AND SATURATING MY CONNECTION WHICH MADE IT DOWNLOAD REALLY FUCKING SLOW

And people seriously want more games made by this company? Jesus christ they make Valve look competent.

If you disable peer 2 peer in the downloader, it'll still download directly from blizzard at around 200kb/s.

My god that's shit, I guess it was faster with p2p on.

Man steam are terrible and I still get like 1.5mb/sec off them, I should've gotten it off usenet.

Be happy you're only getting Diablo 2 - I once had to do it with no p2p for the entire 7gb WoW client. =(

valve caring?! hahahahahahahaha

about money, yes. do you think an old game like quake would get any attention?? clearly, you don't know what they did to CS

what did they do?

I think the lack of tutorials is what keeps the Q3 community so strong when compared to QL. This way, people interact more with each other on sites like ESR than reading some cfg and going at it all by themselves.

It's incomparable to QuakeLive because it's been marketed as a "Free browser based game" which has attracted people from all walks of the gaming world. A friend of mine who happens to be a pretty good magger in CS:S recently gave QL a spin because he's in the UK and happened to stumble upon it. Now, he keeps asking me about Quake 3, demos, cfgs and stuff.

Plus the biggest point of Q3 is the huge mod community and private servers. It would sure be nice to have more tutorials on defrag or machinima or what not but I think its slightly eluding nature is what keeps people wanna come back to it.

lol, not in my country. People are maxing out the AU servers most nights across CA/CTF/Duel. Sucks to be you Europe.

look a respawn! lol

If anything can kill QL, that's the constant whine.

It's not the whine that will kill QL, it'll be the ridiculous unfounded optimism that some people have.

This. The optimists most likely don't complain because they (want to?) forget that they've seen the same lazy shit from id on multiple occasions.

What you need to remember too is that the people who whine, are the people who see problems, care and want to see them fixed.

Everyone else just quits or puts up with crap for a while, then eventually quits when it finally gets too much for them. That's no help at all.

And what you need to remember is that the people who whine are the ones who make others not wanting to stay around. You don't need to be crying all the time to get your message reach id. They already know since it was said the first time, and they make their own decission about it.

All of that would be true except this is one thread on a site that barely anyone who doesn't already know all there is to know about QL visits.

if no one criticizes anything, then where the fuck does the motivation for improvements come from?

you've been a warsow dev for as long as i can remember and i've always disliked you for labeling every criticism of warsow as "whine" and ignoring it.

YOU, jal, are one of the main reasons why many competitive warsow players have left the scene.

The whine doesn't motivate to work, in fact, it does the opposite. For example, it's the main reason why I don't bother doing any more work for Warsow.

i'm not sorry that you take people's criticism of gameplay so personally. you're an irrational, anti-freedom of expression, authoritarian, cuntface. fuck you.

Do I take it as something personal? I don't think so. After 5 years of working I just got tired of reading the same things over and over. The fact that I didn't even feel offended by your reply is indicative enough of how bored of it I am.

lucky. i'm raged.

Most people are sleeping at that time in Europe.
Dump post.

right. that must be why there were 10 000 chock-full counterstrike servers in Germany alone. at that precise time. knowing how germans love their instant hit crap, having a single half-empy insta server is not exactly a sign of popularity.

the teens that fill the majority of cs servers probably arnt too fussed about going to bed at a decent time?

granted. and your point is?

us quakers are past the 14 year old stage of our lives. Lives that demand more than 1 hour of sleep.

Also, I think most teens today aren't as interested in the competitive nature of a game as mcuh as they are the COOL factor, brought in by graphics and gimmicks. Quake is very much a veteran pc gamers FPS. People who are looking for and demanding a well balanced competitive game find quake interesting.

I could be completely wrong about the demographic that plays quake, but I'd love to see average age statistics for quake in comparison to counter-strike and halo.

us quakers is exactly the point.

you think any online fps gaming community is made up of responsible adult individuals? you're delusional.

Considering the age of the average gamer and how much the average 30-something makes, I don't think that idea is necessarily delusional.

oh I forgot, all the rich 30+ adults are here on esr and playing quake. my bad.

you think any online fps gaming community is made up of responsible adult individuals?

See, this is why I say you're fucked.

aiiiiit dog dat shit be fucked rite darrr werd

ffs man, stop drooling on yourself.

actually I take it back. The more I see you post the more retarded you've gotten. I can't help wondering if you've had your account hi-jacked and this is just some alt for some esr troll.

you take what back? stop smoking pot and start making some sense.

Your assumption that just because you come to esr and you're a worthless fuckwit little child that everyone else on this site and every other quake player is a worthless little fuckwit child, too.

From everyone I've spoken with in server, the average age is between 20 and 40. Which would come to approximately 30. Half the time people are bragging about their computers, too. So they're not exactly poor, although not necessarily "wealthy".

edit: oh, taking back what I'd said about "expecting to enjoy your posts in the future". You've gone Full-Retard. You never go full retard.

oh you forgot what it was that you're taking back? it's ok, I understand.

lol
fuckwit.

that is no way to conduct a discussion for a 30+ well off gentleman. shame on you sir.

Live up to your nick and go back to where ever you came from, you've overstayed your welcome.

no we don't want him here

Everyone on the internet is a 30-year old doctor with a degree in chaos theory.

And we´re all married! \o/

you're delusional if you think he said that.

why did you bump this thread?

Oh. maybe it was gSTRUCTOR.

Either way, stop it.

fuck off.

Well, "chock-full" servers don't show in the serverbrowser, so I guess you don't know how many there are in QL.

Factinista. =/

true. but because of high fluctuation especially in mods like insta and ca there should be way more servers displayed.

even if there was 3 times as many invisible servers (which mysteriously get populated without anyone seeing them) that'd still amount to what, 50 players?

Omg play the world's smallest violin for the 1a.m. instagib players.

[IMG]http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00702/4163614.png[/IMG]

50% of damage done by not including ztn.

Good riddance.

In this day and age of sequels and unfinished games, we should just be happy someone is at least trying to pump some life back in the dead cow that is Quake. ( almost for free too )

Obviously Carmack was out of his league when he claimed to be expecting millions of players but I think it's a bit early to comment on the decreasing popularity of a game that has yet to reach the masses. ( not even released actually... )

At least wait until they went full force with the PR stunts. Maybe the ads will end up being both ways a.k.a a quick Quake Live ad seen just before the next Wolverine like movie at the theaters... far fetched but who knows what they have in store.... Such a marketing scenario is bound to create a mass influx of newcomers, even if they are there to play 1 single game.

One thing is for sure however, don't expect a trillion new duelers. It has always been and always will be a niche gametype. Mostly due to the very long time it takes before being enjoyably rewarding. Very few people have the required dedication to begin with.

"One thing is for sure however, don't expect a trillion new duelers. It has always been and always will be a niche gametype. Mostly due to the very long time it takes before being enjoyably rewarding. Very few people have the required dedication to begin with."

blablablabla, it takes dedication to become good at anything in life. It's like saying that nobody is going to play football because very few people have the required dedication for it. But strangely enough there are millions of them out there, having a perfectly good time playing on "their own" level (and ofc I'm talking about European football here, not those fags in titanium amour).

Which of course is the whole point. Football is not going to be enjoyable if your put up against the Brazilian national team in your first match. The same is true in quake duel. You don't want to play cypher in your first duel, which is why the skill matching system is crucial. I don't play a lot of duel, so I don't know how well it works atm. But from what I have heard it doesn't work that great...., yet. This may be the typical ESR whine, or it may be true I dunno . If they can improve this part of quakelive (which they seem to be doing with things like duel detective etc), then there is absolutely no reason why quake duel wouldn't be popular even for casual and weak minded players like yourself who quit immediately when anyone good connects to the server.

everybody isnt cyber, most are just general minded players who know how to time, defend and attack in a duel, its not as skill limiting as you say it is, by far!

So what If I prefer to practice on weaker players rather than lose 200 games in a row in order to get 2% better... maybe I just understood what's best for me to gain skill ??

More to that, you can bullshit all you want, last I checked, I actually attended a few pro events during WSVG. As far as I know, you did not.

If calling me weak minded makes you feel strong, have at thee lol...I couldn't care less to be honest. I personally brought a shitload of new players to this game and I try to help it's growth any way I can.

For all I know, you are blaming me because I don't give you your daily rape, which is close to projection in a sense, since you seem to be craving for a "weak" player to bash on and feel bad cause he doesn't want to play you....ridiculous.

Oh and for the record, I play people like Dkt, Walter etc at least once a week. I just don't feed them all day...

Point remains that for every 100 new quake player, youll get at best 2-3 duelers in the bunch. Surely the skill tiers will help but 1v1 has always been smallish and I don't see the trend change coming up anytime soon, especially in America.

Flame on !

Sigh, maybe I should have put that ;) at the end after all. I was just needling you a little bit, I wouldn't have added that last sentence if you hadn't admitted to it in some other thread yourself :p

And fyi I don't get any enjoyment out of beating new players whats so ever. And you'll probably pummel me in duel if that makes you feel any better

No offense taken, I just wanted to make it clear that everyone has a different practice approach, and goals.

I don't seek to play pro or to attend any tourney in this game. My focus is on helping weaker players to grow and also giving a somewhat educated approach to their skill development.

"It's like saying that nobody is going to play football because very few people have the required dedication for it. "

except for one slight difference: football is fun.

Against opponents of the same skill, sure

Against players way out of your league... not so much.

no. football is fun because it's very easy to understand and learn the basics but also because it has a high skill ceiling. quake on the other hand has loads of crap that aren't obvious to the beginner.

pick up items, shoot opponent.

get ball, kick into goal.

i'd say its pretty much equally simple, where the first example is probably easier to understand cause it adresses the human hunting instinct. :p

pick up items - there aren't any items to pick up, they're never there
shoot opponent - he cannot be killed, he always has more armor and health somehow

?!

get ball - there aren't any balls to pick up, they're never there
kick into goal - cannot be done, goalie always catches ball somehow and i barely ever get the ball in the first place

?!

I think you should present your arguments to FIFA, I'm sure they're worried about the drastic decline of popularity lately. oh snap...

i fuck ducks

All types of football were designed to maximise the fun and then were refined for competition over time. If something wasn't fun, they removed it. See for example the back pass in Soccer, it wasn't fun so it got removed.

Quake and DM games on the other hand have all sorts of things in them which aren't fun in the slightest.

so what are you doing on a quake site then?

And the back pass removed because it wasn't fun? Professional players only care about winning, if they could win by doing back passes all day they would. Sure you could argue that it was removed because it wasn't fun from a spectators point of view, (which is something different entirely) , however that hasn't changed the fact that on average only 1 in 10 games being broadcast is any good (e.g. the recent chelsea-liverpool cl game), while the rest make watching paint dry seem interesting in comparison

Because I enjoy and care about Quake, just because they have lots of elements in them that aren't fun doesn't mean there is no fun in them.

The problem is, most people don't care about Quake or DM games, and as such they aren't going to play through stuff which isn't fun in the hope that it will potentially become fun at a later date.

It's incredibly frustrating seeing QL essentially being a slightly modified Q3 which doesn't address any of the real reasons the masses originally stopped playing the game.

The back pass in football was removed because it was not fun. It wasn't fun to play against, it wasn't fun to do and it wasn't fun to watch since it ruined the game.

Things that aren't fun, spoil games and the back pass was spoiling the game for everyone regardless if players were willing to do it to win.

The problem is that only complete idiots (see: you, tourist, typical ESR:er) find soccer fun.

Soccer is so boring that even the audience (hooligans) are more enterntaining to watch.

Most people don't care about quake because most people have god-awful taste when it comes to everything. If 1000 arseflies love cs, that isn't a guarantee that cs is fun for anybody else but arseflies.

I'm glad if anyone who praises soccer or the taste of 'most people' has their hands as far away from quake as possible.

If 1000 arseflies love [INSERT ANYTHING HERE], that isn't a guarantee that [INSERT SAME ANYTHING HERE] is fun for anybody else but arseflies.

fyp

who said I praised soccer? because statement "soccer is fun" in the context of this discussion(general popularity of a game) is always meant to be my personal oppinion? idiot.

If you're happy with a small community and without "most people" playing Quake then that's fine, I can't argue with that but then maybe id should stop wasting time and money on something that's never going to work.

The point being made wasn't about football, soccer or tastes.

"It's incredibly frustrating seeing QL essentially being a slightly modified Q3 which doesn't address any of the real reasons the masses originally stopped playing the game."

Why did the masses originally stop playing? What are they not doing to remedy the situation?

I think the tiered server placement, a more robust "how to," a community with friend lists and a free game are just a tip of the things they are doing right to keep players around.

They aren't keeping players around.

Okay Vedic, read it slow this time:

"Why did the masses originally stop playing? What are they not doing to remedy the situation?"

Now, try again.

My answer was in response to your

I think the tiered server placement, a more robust "how to," a community with friend lists and a free game are just a tip of the things they are doing right to keep players around.

If you're looking for more on your first questions, use the search function. This has been discussed (especially by me) far too many times.

While not understanding the game and playing against people who are too good doesn't help it is only a small reason why people no longer play.

You need to take a look at games that are popular to work out why Quake is no longer popular.

If a CS player is getting owned, he doesn't quit and never play the game again. So why do people do this in Quake even when there is matchmaking a skill tiering?

There are some fundamental problems with the game mechanics and rules.

Okay. What are they in your estimation? Neither yourself or Vedic has brought anything to the table here.

I'm just curious. I'm not suggesting your wrong.

Aside from simply viewing the server list and seeing the activity compared to release, you can put it together with outside sources like:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=quake+live
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=quakelive...0&sa=N

edit: additionally, for scale:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=quake+live%2C+quake+3

Spawn kills are one of the biggest problems, it's why CA is way more popular in the long run than FFA.

so they should turn quake3 into counterstrike is what your saying?

"If a CS player is getting owned, he doesn't quit and never play the game again"

seriously people need to stop pulling "facts" out of their ass in order to make their own distorted opinions look valid. I played counterstrike maybe 3 times in my entire life, hated it, and never touched it again. And you think I'm alone or something? So much for that "fact"

The only reason counterstrike had a bigger scene as quake years ago is because it was FREE. That gave it a huge head start.on every other so called esports game out there. I don't follow counterstrike at all, but I'm 100% sure the 1.6 scene is not what it was a couple of years ago. They just started with a larger playerbase so it takes longer to die out. But the thing is that EVERY game over time will eventually be left with only a core of die-hards..

And this will continue for as long as they keep releasing new games on the market.Since the sheep will always flock to whatever is the latest and greatest. So the notion of games remaing populair over decades is completely unrealistic for any game in this climate.

The only reason counterstrike had a bigger scene as quake years ago is because it was FREE.

Starcraft isn't free. Sitting on 11+ million sales. Next?

So whats your point? I'm sure the 16 year olds of TODAY can't wait to buy starcraft in the shops (if it's even being sold anymore) so they can play it with the "millions" of players around the world currently playing the game.

/sarcasm

And no korea != world, sorry

The GomTV English cast has pulled in over 1 million unique viewers world-wide.

The envy is strong with this one.

I know people who have never played Starcraft, and have no interest in RTSs in general who are mega excited for Starcraft 2.

I was talking about starcraft 1 not starcraft 2 obviously.

Anyway if you think there is going to be some seamless transition from starcraft 1to starcraft 2 as far as the (Korean) pro community goes you haven't been paying a lot of attention to the recent history of competitive gaming. Just look at the backlash when cs source came out from the cs 1.6 community. The incredible whining during transitions from quake1 to quake2 to quake3 to quake4 to quakelive going on till today in this very thread. The backlash from starcraft players against warcraft 3 players, etc etc etc. Every time a game gets "updated" it will simply split the existing scene of the previous game in half.

Thats not to say that starcraft 2 can't be a successful game in its own right with it's own mostly new base of players which it will undoubtedly have. But to think that it will automatically become the de-facto esports game with every old starcraft player jumping ship without any fuzz is rather naive.

Nobody is saying it will be, stop tainting this discussion with esports nonsense.

I was just pointing out, that a new version of an old successful game gets people who aren't even interested in the game planning to buy it (Let alone try it) and they can't wait and are buzzing with excitement over it.

The transition between CS1.6 and CSS isn't comparable to that of any of the Quakes. Even on Day One CSS had a sizeable player base who have stuck with the game, and it's grown in size and in the mean time CS1.6 hasn't really changed all that much in terms of size to my knowledge (Although it might have in the past two years I guess).

The opposite is true of UT3 or Q4.

"stop tainting this discussion with esports nonsense."

then stop bringing up "esports" games. I'm sure many people are equally excited about the upcoming Super Mario's Dildo Party Karting Challenge 2000.... so what?

But they aren't massive online games that are comparable to these games.

CoD4, TF2, UT3, Quake, CS are all online based FPS games which put players against other players.

As for SC it's by far the most played online RTS game.

"I'm sure many people are equally excited about the upcoming Super Mario's Dildo Party Karting Challenge 2000.... so what?"

For this line alone, you are worthy of a plus.

Dildo Party Karting Challenge !!! Bwahahaha!

Actually, I brought it up, and it was in relation to your point that CS was popular because it was free (despite completely forgetting that you needed to buy HL anyway). SC just proves that a difficult game with a high skill curve AND a price tag can be successful.

How about subtracting the korean sales from that number, because in case you didn't know already nobody gives a fuck about starcraft 1 outside of korea.

And how populair do you think counterstrike would be had it been a full price game from the start, and not been bundled as a free addon with one of the most populair pc games of all time, conveniently being able to use valves state of the art engine and content at the time?

Why would it matter which country that buys the game?

Regardless, Starcraft is the fourth best selling pc games of all time. After the sims 1 & 2 and World of Warcraft. If you disregard the 4.5 million copies sold in Korea, it is still the sixth best selling pc game, ever.

Nevertheless, when both Quake and Starcraft were released, there was much less to choose from and they could get away with having a high skill curve. However, now that is likely not the case, as you can see even the ever popular Blizzard has quite strictly reduced the skill curve for Starcraft 2.

Actually, they do give a fuck outside of Korea - just not nearly as much. By your logic, we should remove Sweden from the list of Q3 sales, simply because it's popular there. Q3 didn't even manage 1 million sales world-wide - a feat even UT3 managed.

No, I'm not suggesting they turn Quake into Counter-Strike. The thing you need to remember is that you're in a massive minority here, most people don't like Quake but they do like CS.

While it's not a fact, if we hold true that one of the reasons why people quit Quake is because they get beat then we can infer that people are more likely to carry on playing CS despite getting beat.

While CS was a free mod you were still required to have purchased Half-Life in order to have access to it, and then you were required to know how to download and install it anyway.

Quake was the biggest brand in FPS gaming, and especially online gaming. For years it had dominated the online FPS scene and Deathmatch was all the rage, yet CS managed to overturn this dominance rather quickly and easily.

CS1.6 and CSS have loads of players, they represent the same game mechanic and rule set (minor differences) and they dominate the online FPS scene.

Even if we accept that CS was free and that helped it get popular, that doesn't explain how lots of free mods haven't managed the same feat nor how CoD4 and TF2 are so popular.

How comes CoD4 and TF2 were successful and yet UT3 and Q4 flopped?

This has nothing to do with esports so I'd advise you to just drop that train of thought now.

HL had no online protection, so yeah, it was virtually free at the start. But still, I agree with all your post. I played Q2 and Q3 for many years, and can now barely force myself to play QL after having past by ET. The only dm gametype that still feels rock solid is duel, but duel isn't (doesn't have to) a popular gametype, and the rest feel just boring, specially for pubbing.

Only CA is worth pubbing and I barely find that engaging.

It's like saying that nobody is going to play football because very few people have the required dedication for it. But strangely enough there are millions of them out there, having a perfectly good time playing on "their own" level (and ofc I'm talking about European football here, not those fags in titanium amour).

How many of those who played football actually starts by playing directly in a team game on a full court with 11 vs 11 and a referee? How many of the total amount of people who has tried football has played it like that? Even though its the official game mode for football, the newbies tend to play more relaxed game types. Such as just doing penalty shots, playing without offsides, passing the ball without letting it touch the ground and so on.

I for one has only played it like that, I've never played the official competition format (neither has anyone that I know, even though they've all played football). Newbies tend to play the less demanding game types, be it in football or in Quake. How many actually start playing it to any serious extent in the official format? Difficult to say but percentage wise it's likely pretty similar, except football has a player base of three billions to begin with.

I don't think it's more demanding from a players point of view to play under the official rules in the official format. The problem is that it's more demanding to organize. Whats the probability your going to have 21 people ready (of which 2 have to be the boring goalies) + a full size pitch + 3 people wanting to be referees etc whenever you want to play a quick game of football?

For quake duel those problems do not exist (clan matches obviously do have some of the same problems). You only need one opponent, and whats even better the computer is the unbiased referee. So again it's not the official format or rules which makes things demanding for the new or experienced player, it's the opposition. And thats where skill matching is key to keep it fun for everyone.

The problem is that it's more demanding to organize.

That is certainly a factor. However, even in sports where it is equally easy to play using a competition format, people tend to go for the more casual types of doing it. For example how many bicycles in competition format compared to doing it casually? How many swims in a competition format? How many skiis? How many runs? How many skateboards? How many sails? How many walks? How many drives? How many climbs? How many dances? How many rides?

Unless you are going to take the ignorance standpoint, you will notice that in practically any sport, much much more participants do it casually compared to those who do it in the official competition format. The same is true for Quake.

Why? Likely because there is not as much individual pressure playing CA or instagib as in duel. You can also start at any time you yourself please, and leave when ever you please (without upsetting people). The skill curve isn't as high either, which means a new player can still get some kills against superior opponents.

instagib, somebody please shoot him

the thing is, even with CPMA features implemented, QL wouldn't have much more traction.. the game feels fundamentally unrewarding for the majority of gamers

Some weeks ago there were plenty of populated servers - now I see drastically less. I'm really surprised by the pace of the decrease.

Things that get popular quickly, decline quickly and it doesn't help when the game naturally alienates people too.

hey, i know that blog :)

who.fucking.cares.

why do you keep track of how many gamers play this or that game, its fucking retarded. why would it matter?

if you want to play a game with a lot of players just play some noobfest or make q3 a noobfest.

oh I don't know, maybe because they plan to make money off of it?

gnome.

why do you care

If they don't do well, that's it for the quake games.

have they produced anything worth playing the last ...uh... 10 years?

(point being that they should maybe re-think their strategy)

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with you there. It's just that a lot of people care about QL because they kinda have to if they want another Quake game.

because I like the game. what are you, an idiot?
(don't answer that)

so you're saying more money equals better game?

I think you, lethe, jamerio and streetrunner should form a thinktank. NASA would have nothing on you guys.

you didnt answer my question

maybe they can do a battle of wits against you, vedic, the new Estonian kid and jamerio.

And yes I do believe jamerio is schizophrenic enough to play on both teams.

that new guy is proper weird. :OOOOOOOOOOO

link and vedic cant be on the same team, they would argue about some WoW bullshit all day long

I have no problem finding lots of games.

Hopefully soon both private servers will be available, and also id will take advantage of the build-in tournament systems.

less people playing a shitty game is probably a good thing

total bullshit. Even at ridicilous times like 05:00 AM i can still find people to play with in my timezone. Infact, the only time i have trouble starting a game is when the server is full before im in it.

People were proclaiming that it would be DOA for months because of one or two whiny faggots who didn't get their ztn. Then when it came out they claimed the queues would kill it. Then they point to irrelevant google analytics reports. Then they point to idiotic youtubes about how the anti-lagged is supposedly broken. Now you have people taking random screenshots of bad game modes at random times of day without any context and proclaiming it dead.

Yet for 90% of the playerbase, you can log in, find a game and play, and on top of that the game is officially only in beta without any huge company-sponsored marketing pushes.

Quake Live is only dead if you pay attention to ESReality.

Yet for 90% of the playerbase, you can log in, find a game and play, and on top of that the game is officially only in beta without any huge company-sponsored marketing pushes.

This is also true of Q3 - that doesn't mean that the game is alive. You can ignore the facts all you want, but there's no way to avoid the game dying. It terrifies you because you've spent so much time ignorantly raving like a fanboy trying to defend the last twitches as "STILL ALIVE!"

I eagerly await it's death to reply to all the posts I have saved from you proclaiming how well QL would do.

That is not true at all for q3, I hardly have any choice in what gametype I just want to spend a quick 15 minutes in, and sometimes I don't even have that as I check my gamebrowser and see not one damn game I can join. Thing's like pickup channels in irc were probably made for that purpose.

It's still possible on IRC, just spread out.

Of course it is, what I meant was that q3 has needed this for a long time for most people to find a game as quickly as possible. whereas qlive is not at this stage.

No, its not even possible on irc anymore, q3 is really _dead_, if you only need 30 minutes finding someone to play duel against on irc in europe, you are lucky, and you can forget about playing tdm alltogether.

Compared to that, quakelive is 100x as active.

if there's 200 people playing ql at any given time you will most likely be able to find a game. only question is, are these sort of numbers enough to justify the game's existence financially?

i was just pointing out that q3 is in fact dead, nothing more, nothing less.

I was just pointing out that definition of "active" is relative. nothing more nothing less.

And don't forget that QL won't exist once it's not financially sustainable. When that happens there will be no servers.

all true <3

you also forgotting that all full servers are filtered.

Same thing applies to a few months ago when a few dozen servers showed on the list.

do you also know that server with skill too low are automatically filtered since you can't join?
with time good players increased tiers e due matchmaking changes they can't see anymore all server with noobs like in the beginning.

You can make a new account under other tiers to see the same activity across the board.

its the more active game i ever played :D
(well i played q4 4 month when it was already dead..started with ut3 that noone played and warsow that had like 10 good players worldwide) :D

congratulations, you've played 4 dead games.

wsw isn't did yet :D

it's like a mini-quake, mini-undead.

nought-point-five, keep the dream alive :]

what happend to the fastpaced fps community? i mean you go like, blah it's dead, blabla and don't even try to do something against it. the game as i see it at the moment is pretty active, its fun and there are people of all skill classes.

fact is, that you kill the games yourself by saying it's dead , seems like a lot of pessimistic people are out there

instead start a few quickcups or something.

and last, if you don't like the game, don't play it, but don't cry at others who play it, it's their decision.

I don't work at id. games don't die because players don't "spread the word". they die because nobody wants to play them.

"they die because nobody wants to play them. "

... and instead troll esr instead about how the game is dying.

what reason do they give for the game dying?

they say noone ever plays it.
So they spend lots of time whining about it on ESR.

ah ok, makes sense.

"So they spend lots of time whining about it on ESR. "

where german people think one can play the game whole day and instead of playing it themselves whine about their whine.

whine detected :DDD

I agree with wingz,

spread the word and don't give up, otherwise it just gets worse and worse

I don't particularly like QL, but hell no, it's far from dead.

Player wise, its doing OK.

Overall its been a big let down, its still worse than Q3 when it should be much better just to negate its age.

Hopefully it catches up on Q3 by fixing some of these;
- Worse netcode
- Poor quality of servers and lack of low ping servers.
- Large amount of missing goodies from OSP/CPMA.
- Missing GTV / MVD
- No mods, i.e. defrag
- Limited maplist
- Unstable platform (fps dips, settings not sticking)
- No Private servers
- Punkbuster kicking 50% of players

+1 if they put private servers then the game gonna die :( pay or getout from out website smthng like that :D

yeah, because, instagib and ctf and ca were never mods...

Correct

new to quake?

imo one thing is really hurting team games since way too long for a such common and easy to do feature, it's the lack of a real balance teams vote
atm we only have a shuffle, which leads most of the time to still unbalanced teams on a skill pov (the only positive thing about it is it balances the number of players on each team), which often means complete massacre of one team by the other, which gives lot of frustration. and guess what, frustration isn't a good thing, especially coming from a randomn factor
kind of absurd to take the time to create a matchmaking feature, and then let that tiny stuff above partially ruin it

also, lack of an autobalance (=number of players not even on both sides for 30 sec ? the server autotakes on the team which has the most players those who have the less points and switches them to the other side to balance the number of players on each teams)

and the damn runes in half of the ctf maps, which can't be voted out ; too bad, especially since we're lacking maps
ctf and actf should be separated. actf is great random fun for noobs, but annoying as hell when you're not a beginner anymore

good point. a simple balancing algorithm that evens average team skill rating instead of number of players could go a long way in making the game more fun. for this we would need a proper ranking system tho.

That's already in there. It has been pretty well documented that we've already altered the skill matching system for duel games and that soon we will done extending that to the team based gametypes.

The team shuffle code that already exists does take the players skill levels in consideration, its simply that our team gametypes are not benefiting from our new skill code yet.

the sooner the better then

why id dont listen to players who play quake series MOAR than 10 years? ql is already dead...PROUD?(c) chypa

who is this chypa you speak of?

cypher :<

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." (c) Bill Gates

:p

one month later still nothing, still often unbalanced matches skillwise/number of players wise
still frustrating

so, where's your head at ?

now come one...

IS THERE ANYONE IN THERE MARTY ?

SLOW PACED DEV FOR A FAST PACED GAME
way to go to fail

You need to be more pro-active with your pestering mate, I did and look what Bitterman got...

what, uriel's wings ?

I'm gonna ask nemecel some advices

3 months

almost forgot (4)

ql will become good when it is too late... same like in q4 :'(
I think ql will be awesome in approx 1 year when 20 people play it... like q4

OH FUCK YOU STILL HAVN'T FIXED IT ?!
haha

could just use the points the players have, or had at the end of the last match, until we have a proper ranking system ; tiers is way too approximative to differentiate skills in a long learning curve's game as quake, since there obviously are players with huge skill differences in these tiers ranked servers
also it would be cool to be able to do ingame votes ; I wonder why it's disabled outside warmup. if you don't jump on vote before enough people readied up to start the game, you're screwed (and that said, you still have to guess in warmup what you could want to vote in the middle of the game. ofc it's absurd)

havn't played for months, I wonder if this shit has been fixed

only newbs play instagib.

ql is dying because nobody plays insta?

[-] for the conclusion.

even newbes dont play instagib,only nubz

People should just stop bitching and moaning.

Please remember that QL is still in Beta phase. Yes there are plenty of things still missing that we had in Quake 3. Currently id are mainly focusing on attracting new players to start with a bigger player base. It may seem like they're ignoring the "elite" of old Quake, but I'm convinced this will all work out sooner or later, probably with the release of private servers and competitive features.

I'm really getting sick of all this whine on ESR how QL is shit and how every constructive thread ends up in a huge flamefest over how good CPM is. When I started playing Q3 back in 2000 I enjoyed it to an agree that made me want to play more. The more I played the more interested I became. I still remember being up till 4.00 in the morning watching a GTV of USA vs Euro in CTF. At the moment there are plenty of good initiatives coming from the community:
- plenty of 1v1 cups and ladders hosted by individual sites.
- TDM cups for clans and even nations.
- Big show matches with coverage (USA-CAN, any 1v1 tournament final).
The people that want to make this game succeed are really putting in a big effort already.

My point is this: we all want to see the next big E-sports game, like back in the day. Quake LIVE has the potential to do so, but it cannot without the help of the community. People have been adapting from Quake World to Q2, Q3, Q4 and now QL. Each of theses games are very similar but also having their subtle differences. Put aside your pessimistic bollocks, try and adapt and support the game or at least the idea it stands for. I'd rather have QL as the next big game at similar events like ESWC, CPL, QuakeCon then some shit FIFA, FEAR2, BattleField or some other bullshit game. Quake is universal and it beats any other shit game, if you can agree to that, support!

KG/AM

yet another case of complaining about complaining

YES this is beta. NO people will not cope with a bad game even if it's a beta.

Second, I don't think id is actually trying to attracting new players. As the amount of players is decreasing (the reason for this topic)

I can think of two ways to attract new players.
-Advertising.
-Adding content focused on them.
They aren't doing the first, and in my opinion, they aren't doing the second enough.

So we must support the game don't we? How?
-By posting on forums about quakelive (check)
-By inviting friends (check)
-By playing (check)
-By organizing/playing in tournaments.
-By showmatches.

I did post on the forums about QL and I did invite friends. And guess what? Every single one that didn't have much Quake experience stopped.

Tournaments and showmatches would be great aswell, if only we had private servers and GTV so people could actually watch showmatches. And don't come up with videostreams as they are way too expensive and of too low quality.

Developing support by the community is a no go aswell since id isn't taking in custom maps as of yet.

Where I think this will end? Either being cancelled for not having enough players or it will get perfect eventually but with a very low playerbase (and thus not an eSport for those that care).

I personally think id is going a good direction, I just think made two fatal errors, the first being having not enough developers on the team meaning it will take too long for QL to be developed to go beyond the level of CPMA and thus most of the new players which are so needed will have left.
The second being going open beta too early, people nearly never give games a second try.

Cloaked whine.

I was wondering, could Quake as a game even survive?

Thinking of all popular games. They share that they are easy to learn and hard to master. Quake isn't easy to learn, and it's even harder to master. And I think we can blame it all on strafejumping.

Movement and aiming are the basics of a game. Aiming is as easy as in every other game, while the movement is waaaaaaaay harder than in most games. But this is also a contradiction, strafejumping keeps new players away, while it serves the niche as strafejumping is interesting to us.

So thinking about that, both having and not having strafejumping kills the game in the end. Another DM game that only servers a niche is UT. Which is odd as UT has an easy to learn movement system. So my conclusion then would be, DM games have no future.

Quake without strafemping would die as it wouldn't have interesting aspects. Quake with strafejumping would die as it won't attract new players.

Please prove me wrong.

Thinking of all popular games. They share that they are easy to learn and hard to master. Quake isn't easy to learn, and it's even harder to master. And I think we can blame it all on strafejumping.

I'd say Starcraft is harder (and probably a lot more frustrating) and it does alright.

Movement and aiming are the basics of a game. Aiming is as easy as in every other game, while the movement is waaaaaaaay harder than in most games. But this is also a contradiction, strafejumping keeps new players away, while it serves the niche as strafejumping is interesting to us.

The contradiction of this community on the matter is rather funny. The cap to which you need to reach in strafe jumping on any duel map is rather low since you don't need more than 2-3 jumps to get to any point where you have to stop/change momentum. The marginal difference that you gain from performing a perfect strafe jump every time is wasted on duel maps. The people who covet strafe jumping are the ones who think it's hard just because most newbies struggle with it. They don't actually take the time to consider that the actual act itself isn't that hard, and that you cap out on ability very early on in duels.

So thinking about that, both having and not having strafejumping kills the game in the end. Another DM game that only servers a niche is UT. Which is odd as UT has an easy to learn movement system. So my conclusion then would be, DM games have no future.

UT2k4 is still played - far more than Q3, too. UT3 died because it tried to be UT99, which, despite hardcore players still playing it, was not as popular as UT2k3/UT2k4.

Quake without strafemping would die as it wouldn't have interesting aspects. Quake with strafejumping would die as it won't attract new players.

I don't think Quake would die without strafe jumping, as there are plenty of games out there that incorporate easier to use systems, and even no system at all, with great success. I think that the people who are unable to see the issue with strafe jumping as a concept of a skill that needs to be mastered would leave, but that would be for the better. In my opinion, the best movement system is the one in Doom 2 - it's very easy to learn, offers a very exciting and fast paced gameplay, and can still take some skill to properly navigate the map with it. (to any doom 2 players here, I'm talking strictly about sr40 as I believe sr50 should be removed)

I think Starcraft is an example of a game that actually has very easy basics. The professional players just execute these basics very well. The bugs of Starcraft aren't that much of a decisive factor in games between beginners as strafejumping is. In Quake, the one who knows how to strafejump could never lose to the person that doesn't.

And does UT2k4, not taking onslaught into account have a player base id software should be jealous at?

And I might not be speaking for everyone. But I would instantly stop playing Quake if id decided to remove strafejumping, Quake isn't anything special without it.

And I might not be speaking for everyone. But I would instantly stop playing Quake if id decided to remove strafejumping, Quake isn't anything special without it.

I wouldn't say to simply remove strafe jumping without fixing the rest of the mess that is VQ3, but I'm saying that it's certainly not necessary.

In Quake, the one who knows how to strafejump could never lose to the person that doesn't.
sorry but this is bullshit

I don't think strafejumping has that much to do with the difficulty to start, tbh. Some, ofc, but not that much. I think it has more to do with the goal of the game being getting kills, and the game not giving a newb time to learn anything before getting killed. This makes a newcomer feel he isn't advancing nor discovering anything new as he plays. I basically think a gametype where players feel they are part of the game while having the chance to take their time to learn would be the most useful thing on this matter. Think ET, a newb won't have troubles surviving as he walks the map and observes, as long as he doesn't go into the choke point where the combat is happening, and if he does, he expects to die. At Quake gametypes there are no safe areas in the maps so he will die very soon after respawning, and excepting at CA, he won't even have time to think before being put in the game again.

what you say makes sense.

personally i prefer strafe jumping and quakeworld/cpm movement to doom's straferunning but that's purely qualitative.

Do you use the straferuns on common pro maps? It feels much the same to me, just easier to do.

yawn ql. cant stand that game. and apparently most people cant either

Baiting for flames/trolling :D

actually was being truthful. quakelive is nothing compared to cpma in my opinion. and to most people they dont find quakelive very fun compared to shit like cod4

id software fail yet again, well no surprise since it follows a strong trend. Projects they put all their resources into come out average these days, so QL was always going to fall short of expectations. OK, they've admitted they underestimated the technical side, but admitting and doing something about it are worlds apart. They've kept the project under resourced and so the pace of progress has never improved, we're still pending game basics. Its farcical that after this long in development it struggles to improve upon its ten year old predecessor. Saying that, QL is such an excellent concept, its far from game over. Its just a shame that such a huge amount of momentum has been lost, the chance of success lowered and yet another round of huge Quake potential is being squandered. Upcoming May updates got me all excited, but I'm old school. It now looks like a real possibility that QL may never get to a point where the average gamer is enjoying his stay. If that happens, id software would have out done themselves by failing their most solid and potentially rewarding plan by shooting themselves in the foot. Regardless, I'm loving QL :)

You should seriously think about making a more compacted text, I feel like your post is full of wind :p

That's just the way I roll, some have it, some don't, to me its natural :}

KG/AM

i can't even get past crash....

unless its fixed now...


which i doubt

Ultimately the lack of players comes down to one thing - most people don't want to play a ten year old game. When I tried to get new players interested they took one look at the graphics and never went near the game again.

I really don't understand why id are still investing time and money in something that is obviously a total failure. Give it up and focus on the Doom 4 multiplayer since that will have pretty graphics and therefore a lot more chance at gaining the mainstream popularity Quake and Quake 3 had when they were launched.

so people dont play cs anymore then?

Touche

bullshit, I am sick of this graphics = gameplay nonsense. glad i can play ql on my laptop

it seems 80% of europe's player base was from poland, western servers are empty since PL servers are up
the only decent quake mod, ctf, is ruined by these runes anyway

a big part of the community comes from poland but its not the major part. It takes longer to find a duel match but maybe it has sth to do with wrong skillmatching. You know you cant see the low skill server anymore.

Runes should be removed from tier 3+ servers. Runes are just for noobs.

So fucking flawed.

A) We have no idea what time of day this was taken

B) Servers that are full are hidden. There could be 15 full servers, he wouldn't of seen them.

you sir, are a gem.

Id hasnt done anything for quake live in last couple of months... and you can see it clearly from google trends...

id still treats the game like it's in close beta.

If they finish everything up, like the leaderboards, and advertises the fuck out of the game the number of players would double instantly.

Basically none of my friends that play games like BF2 or CoD has any clue what QL even is. When I say it's free they usually asks if it's better than Battlefield Heroes lmao.

Double would still only be 2x Quake 3. That would still make the game less popular than UT2k4.

If you include all mods and game types, I'm pretty sure there are more people playing Q3 than UT2k4.

If you remove Urban Terror, Q3 has a few hundred players. It makes up like 85% of the players.

stats/leaderboards leads to fakeaccounts which seems to look like more people playing but in fact there arent. The quakelive community wont increase anyway whatever you do. Make it like wow then maybe...

completely correct!

[ ]Quake Live is dying
[x]InstaGib is dying

[x]InstaGib is boring

[x]truths

AMEN! =)

Quakelive is growing very fast wich day m8 ... maybe the other fast paced shooters are dying easily ...

numbers seem to be going up

3 month change -19%

Yesterday 0.022%
7 day avg 0.0198%
1 month avg 0.0142%
3 month avg 0.01105%

which part of red arrow facing downwards did you not understand?

I would say the "facing downwards" part, agree?

Just checked it.

"3 month change 68% " With a pretty green arrow facing upwards. Go Quakelives!!!1!1

I'm so waiting for vedic to show up and explain to you how his google search statistics which a still in beta are way more accurate than site traffic.

haha exactly what i was thinking

There is no way to make the quake live browser display full servers, and you wont see the tier 1-2 servers at all if you have any FPS skills </thread>

nice comments overall, showing how people depend on their surrounding instead of themselfs

this game is bad because there is no my shit in there so:

-add my shit
-there is no my shit
-on top of that there should be my shit
-sux

my shit should be in game because without my shit this is not a game and it is bad game.
ups, because of MY SHIT how things should be i forgot that this is just a game i should enjoy as i did when i hadn't any concept about how game should be.

don't hate instagib players, they should also be able to compete. in a way.

its like paralympics of quake.

It can also be considered as rehabilitation activity.

more like methadon.

You take the drug but get no kick.

railgun ammunition is uranium slugs, so railers gets poisoned by radioctivity.

I don't think it's really about 'my shit' or 'his shit' or anything like that

it is about the 'most basic' shit.. come on how can people think QL will get popular if the most basic things aren't working / even implemented.

And u can say 'it's not about the 'serious' scene but only for 'new players' joining.. but as long as the 'serious' scene can't play anything normaly you will lose a lot of exposure / returning players.

ohw and just a hint for the QL developers, let everyone create private servers asap / fix the voting system / make sure people can watch games (even an option to let 'other' clanplayers be on the server if you are playing a 4on4 TDM or CTF game would already be a step in the right direction and make sure you add some maps soon because people are already giving up on QL as we speak.

I agree.

Another hint for the QL developers:

let everyone my shit asap / fix my shit / make sure people can watch my shit (even an option to let 'other' clanplmy shitayers be on the server if yomy shitu are playinmy shitg a 4on4 TDM or CTF gmy shitame would already be a step in thmy shite right direction and make sure you add some my shit soon because people are already giving up on QL as we speak.

:P The shit is strong in you !

apparantly people have been giving up on QL for a half a year now. I stopped playing, too.

I wonder how much longer they will keep giving up on it before the shit hits the fan.

ID will release a BIG update with everthing the community was asking for when its too late... I dont care anymore. Its just a game which gets boring.

Noone is 'giving up on QL', what gave you that idea? New tourneys are coming up like mushrooms, old players find their way back from inactivity (of playing q3), some new talents are developing. Sponsors and new Clans are announced on a daily basis. The community is developing nicely.

I stopped playing, too.

Admit it, that was the important part for you to say.;)

I am resistant to subtle irony by the way.

I noticed.