It's not been decided yet but will probably be discussed by arQon and the CPMa design team soon. In the meantime play some Q3 CPMa. :P

A "promode" style mod is needed. So much needs to be changed (Just don't add air control/instant weapon switch)

lol promode without aircontrol ....
u rox dude!!
i would say plz guys.. make a promode that is like osp

Air control is more desirable for competitive gameplay. To specifically rule it out would be contrary to the aim of a 'pro mode' in the first place.

What makes it so much more desirable for competitive play?.

Speed? You can make strafe jumping just as fast (Only difference is you have to slow down to turn corners, which is not a bad thing)
Difficulty? It is not more or less difficult than strafe jumping
Flow? You can still have fine flow without it

Don't mistake your personal preference or other games with air control (Of which there are many more differences than air control) for the superiority of air control.

There are also plenty of games/mods being made with air control designed to be competitive. If you were to just do that what would make this one different (And therefore worth the effort when people can just play q3cpma, qw, warsow, pk and any other games with air control)

Any reason why you don't like aircontrol?

"Too fast and "Too hard to bunnyhop" are the common ones, but once people play a few games the realise it's WAY better and, the most important thing, more fun.

I just prefer the feel of strafe jumping. And I have played quite a lot of games with air control enough to know I prefer strafe jumping. It gives too much freedom for my taste and while it is fun I find strafe jumping more fun. Like I said in my above post it is not more difficult (Maybe it is for some random CS/RA player) nor is it "too fast" as air control does not dictate speed(except when corners are involved).

And that is beside the point. He said it is more desirable which I think is wrong (It is neither more desirable nor less). If a q4 promode had air control what would make it so vastly different to play that instead of insert game with aircontrol.

why do you make it sound like you have to stick to one or the other? in cpm&warsow you have both strafe jumping and air control. Indeed a lot of the time you tend to just use strafe jumping (fastest way to get from a to b in a straight line).

and yes a game with air control is hella lot faster than vanilla q3/q4 movement, just watch the latest warsow vid or the cpl pk coverage for examples of this

as for your last comment, qw/half life/cpma/pk/warsow all seem pretty varied games to me, certaintly more so than q3->q4

You can use strafe jumping yes. But to to have air control available is what I dislike, yeah I could choose not to use it but I would be at a disadvantage (Just like if I was to ignore a vq3 BFG in map because I thought it was lame).

That is my point QW/CPMA/HL/PK/WSW all have air control why make a q4 pro mod play similar to them in terms of raw movement (They are varied due to other reasons).

The reason why air control games are faster isn't just because of air control there are so many factors involved in making a game fast not just movement. (Maps, Weapons, Spawns, Pickups, Players and many more)

Vq3 can have fast gameplay (Maybe not as fast as X) just by making more combat orientated maps like aerowalk or cpm1a (vq3 is still quite simple and slow movement wise, but that can easily be improved upon without the need to add air control) .

I feel a Q2/Q3 pro mod would be quite refreshing rather than seeing another QW style gameplay pro mod. Not to mention what a waste of time and insult it would be to simply want CPMA in q4 to the cpma team who spent several years making cpma and it getting largely ignored.

cpma is as much a q2/q3 hybrid as it is a qw style game anyway, but yes some q2 features would be nice in q4, namely double jumping & weapon drops :)

It plays much more like QW though. It has Double Jumps and Drop Weapon from Q2 (Did QW have this?) and the Q2 Mega system. Quake 3 weapon set (And strafe sort of) that is all I would credit Q2/Q3 in CPMA.

It plays as much like Q2 as QW, if not more so. QW is very different from the Q2/Q3/CPMa family.

It dosn't really matter tbh (I do quite like cpma) none of this was my point :D

NO PROBLEM MATEZ THEY WONT MAKE Q4 PROMODE WITH AIR CONTROL COZ ITS LIKE Q2 AND WSW BUT THEY WILL USE STANDARD MOVEMENT WHICH IS LIKE Q4 ALREADY AND Q3

in other words your arguement is flawed

Least I'm not a dead man :D

haha true :(

Because without air control, players more in a predictable fashion through the air, all it takes is aim to hit them.

When you actually have control over your direction, it becomes a question of aim vs evasion.

Don't mistake your personal preference or other games with air control (Of which there are many more differences than air control) for the superiority of air control.

It's funny you should mention that. All this is beside the point, because my point was: Eliminating something just because you don't like it is contrary to the entire goal of a pro-mode in the first place.

The reason I don't want air control is because a pro mod without air control would be interesting as the CPMA team was the first in depth look at deathmatch gameplay and chose the air control/instant weapon switch route early on and have made it an amazing game. However I'm sure they have hundreds of different gameplay affecting ideas which would suit a non air control game (And were therefore not picked up).

I think cq3's movement and weapon changes are best suited to a "pro" game. infact cq3 would be perfect, lets go play that :(

(straffe jumping, double jumps, ramp jumps)
(weapon changes somewhere between 3w and vq3)

Did anybody ever give it a proper try (A league/Ladder to test it?)

I played quite alot of it, but I don't think it got any competition love at all.

pm1/2 people love their game, as do vq3 people, so very few people were willing to even consider a sort of middle ground

Speed? You can make strafe jumping just as fast

That's only true if you completely ignore the momentum gained from being constantly able to gain speed, where as you lose some every corner without air control.

Difficulty? It is not more or less difficult than strafe jumping

It is; you have more to consider with bunnyhopping, it's actually quite alot like driving; you have to decide on your fastest line, slow down in places in order to keep overall speed high, etc. (gelleh cpm demos are a perfect example of how to manage your speed; it's not just about going as fast as you can).

It is not more difficult enough to make it a must for a "pro mod" though. It suits CPMA's/QW/Warsows style of play but what is so important that it is needed?

I did mention the corner thing which I don't see as bad (And can be dealt with in maps anyway)

What I am trying to say is it is not better and a must for all competitive gameplay mods and what would be the point in simply remaking CPMA but SLIGHTLY different.

It's not a must, no. :}

I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in the first place :)

it's not like you have anything better to do :}

T_T

removing air control would not be SLIGHTLY different, it would rob a CPMA mod of its soul.

what you want is OSP. i think that is going to happen already no matter what by the time the CPL World Tour starts.

what a lot of us fans want, is what you guys are taking for granted. our favorite quake gameplay in the new engine (qw-style air control). although tbh, this time around i'd prefer a straight up qw-remake in the new engine, +forward bunny hopping = ugh.

(i mean why should WE go back to playing QW/Q3CPMA/Warsow? why don't YOU go back to Q3osp and let us use Q4?)

I didn't ask for OSP at all. Air control is not the only change in CPMA you know. What I want is a pro mod without air control you do realise that wouldn't be OSP?

This was asking for a pro mod I said what I wanted, do you think I am in any position of influence over whoever it is that makes a pro mod or something? If you don't how am I "robbing" you?

If I wanted OSP believe me I would PLAY OSP but I don't I want a Q2/Q3 hybrid without air control and instant weapon switch. Sort of like CQ3 but with even more changes to the weapon set (Tiered weapons, weak spawn weapon, strong armours, stronger PU's, more tactical/strategic gameplay)

Unlike you my favourite quake gameplay hasn't really been made yet (Or the closest attempt wasn't played or I wasn't even playing FPS's when it was [Q2])

On the QW remake thing, this is actually a good idea (Remake QW/Q2/Q3 in Q4). If they can all be done accurately it would be cool to have a Quake where you can play ANY quake :)

"On the QW remake thing, this is actually a good idea (Remake QW/Q2/Q3 in Q4). If they can all be done accurately it would be cool to have a Quake where you can play ANY quake :)"

Thats retarded, why convert superior games into an shite game using an inferior engine?

Why not? I can't see it taking that much effort if the movement/armours/weapons are being re-done anyway.

I think it was allready done in q3 can't recall the mod but dont think it was too popular, the real thing is always best imo

Yeah I think I saw that. But it was also seperate from the comp mods etc.

jesus why don't you kill yourself now dude :(((

<3

/kill

:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

what would be the point in simply remaking Q3 but SLIGHTLY different like what q4 is now? it's just not as polished as five years of community but it is essentially quite the same.

Not what I am saying. Why are there so many people who think air control = super gameplay, no air control = VQ3 weak armoured cess fest as if that is all there is to it?

well you were talking about the air control part only (referring to your reply to embroglio, not your original post). i'm not putting down vq3 gameplay in anyway and i did enjoy it when i used to play a lot of it earlier, just that my personal preference is having air control on. on the other hand, i don't really find anything new in q4 and even with mods, it will be pretty much like q3. i'm unable to think of what they could change to make the gameplay feel fresh yet continue to appeal to the players in the community.

edit: and to me, the idea of a "promode" would be something which offers new challenges where players will actually have to practice to get good at, especially with reference to movement. right now almost everyone can strafe jump normally and most cpma players can bunnyhop. CPMA appealed to me as a "promode" because it succesfully combined elements from older games to create new possibilities which players had to work towards mastering (stairs to mega on cpm3 for example). i only wonder what's left to be seen.

Wall jumping?

Strafe jumping can be as easy and as difficult as you want it to be. I don't want vq3 gameplay especially not vq4 with its stupid NG/SG/RG, it is good but it isn't great.

Anyway I don't want q3 but slightly different. I don't want qw but slightly different. I don't want q2 but slightly different. I don't want cpma but slightly different. :P

Different combinations of things can lead to new gameplay especially when a lot of thought is put into maps etc. (This works especially well in TDM which is my concern I don't care for duel :P)

air control adds another dimesion to the game, instead of your run of the mill, stand point and click style play which is in every FPS.

I never personaly got on with cpma, but do apreciate it, however i do love qw, and if i could get everyone to play any quake it would be QW! even though my main scene has been q3.

A game only becomes point and click due to weapon balance/maps(ok no air control can add to it slightly but not the amount people seem to think). Non air control games are perfectly capable of not being point and click all aim games. The real difference between air control and non air control games is the freedom of movement it gives, which some people like and others do not.

Besides I do like air control I just prefer no air control and would like to see a non air control pro mod and that air control is not a requirement for a pro mod. That is all I am saying.

Now can you all stop this pointless OMG HE IS SAYING AIR CONTROL SUCKS. IT IS TEH SKILLZ drivel and understand my points.

I understand your points, i think it is necsary to have a mod such as osp that enhances the gameplay/features but does not alter the core gameplay or dynamics like cpma does

No no I want changed dynamics just not instant weapon switch (zzz) and air control :)

Why play Q4 when its just q3 but slightly different?

Because my clan plays q4

So if your clan played cpm u would too ?=]

Yes :)

i agree about gelleh's demos as being the perfect example of managing speed :) i also love the way he uses every ramp and step in maps.

"What makes it so much more desirable for competitive play?"

Because it makes the gameplay so much richer.

For you

instant weapon switch and air control pls

could we add an offo model as well ...

I dont think its really easy to make the movement in the first place, I would love a uber mini mod with air control...

i played one 2 years ago.. "q4w"

ill quote the nowdays innacurate readme:

"===========================
C O N T A C T U S
===========================
Web : http://www.q4w.org
Web/forum : http://www.q4w.org/forum
irc : #q4w on Quakenet
Email : [email protected]"

lmao, i just realized his post were older than mccain..

IDIOT!, gosh...

Amen vafan Reppie! =)

Thanks for the info though! :(

np, enjoy !

first step to cpma and a faster game is the air control!!

sounds good hkrep!!

BOTS

100% air control plz.

g_gravity 0 ?

noclip

+ godmode plz..

I'd be very careful to invest time in anything else than osp for q4 at this moment. From reading around forums q4 started off on a big quake-series-bonus that doom3 didnt have but that's about all there is to the game's popularity. Somebody put it nicely: nobody ever says "q4 is nice", they all say "it has potential", cpma for q3 has infinite potential, look where it is ;[

q4 is nice

dont you hate it when that happens?

Yes ;'(

most people say it has potential because it could be q3 with some work, not because the gameplay could be something new and never seen before.

q4 has potential

shhhh...your not supposed to tell anyone

As long as air control never robs the spotlight I hope the later versions of Q4MAX have all the goodies of promode.

all I see here is blablablabla

wikipedia plain q4 have crouch 'n' slide tecnique that avoid lose momentum when u turn corners. You may say "well no need to air control then" the counterpoint of this "tricky bug" (because it's an exploitaded bug) is a bad check of collisions when crouched (eg. 600 or more ups and crouched you pass through other players or you don't get any splash damage from rockets, not always but often) and this sux in a competition.
my point is: if cpma alters the physic of the game in a good way then hurray for cpma and air control or whatever.

epic fail of the month right there..

Mega Bump!!! :D

Go make some fucking spagetti or something.