Me
Me
Me
Me
YAY0

1. Tim Willits
2. Tim Willits
3. Tim Willits
4. Tim Willits
5. Paul Nelson

1. rapha
-
-
2. Cypher/Evil
3. DaHang
4. Pavel/Agent/
5. baksteen/cooller/av3k/k1llsen

honorable mentions: All the q3 pros, the p0ni and the rehepapp and the irish UT guy with the nasty rocketfight skill and I bet gienon isnt so bad at hub anymore too after losing to av3k on that for a million times.

Cyb3r

Is that a joke?

Why? Cyber is an excellent player that's also super cool.

1. noctis
2.
3.
4.
5.

honorable mention: dem0n ;)

Lmao, i tought you were trolling already assuming you were talking about quake in general.

But you're talking quake live, specifically? Then you're just dumb.

Cypher was clearly the best QL dueler.

He's even ahead on score in direct matchups against Rapha.

He only has less overall big titles because the guy is a dumb pothead so terminally addicted he tried to smuggle weed trough an international airport. And that cost him literally years of competitions opportunity.

Also keep in mind Cypher played his entire quake live career on a 75 hz monitor.

Even YEARS after all the other pros had already switched to at least 120, if not 144 hz.

Cypher was easily the brightest quake dueling talent the world has ever seen. Unfortunately he's also a self destructive alcoholist pothead and that killed the last part of his career.

titles and achievements are usually the baseline for ranking competitor's legacies in any environment, right?

also, memory is hazy but didn't cypher get consistently tilted by evil, while rapha was able to handle him? whether it was his own self-destruction, or evil's superiority, doesn't it make cypher the inferior player regardless?

and what's the point of labelling a player the GOAT if he supposedly ruined himself. that is not the hallmark of a GOAT. if he shoots himself in the foot by not upgrading his equipment, succumbing to addictions (supposedly) or getting caught with weed at the airport, doesn't that also tie into the player as a whole?

anyway, Laskij is the real #1

You're right, and that's why it's important that Cypher won more often than not against Rapha.

Also Evil was one of those synthetic online only heroes like Strenx, that performed like monsters in insignificant weekly cups but magically lost most of their edges playing on lan.

And on lan, Cypher used to spank Evil's ass. Sometimes he even made him look silly.

Also, you the guy talking about titles? Then Evil is irrelevant to the discussion since he never won a major lan and retired and disappeared into thin air with the release of quake champions, after getting dominated too badly in the beta of the game.

Also Evil was one of those synthetic online only heroes

I wouldn't call playing Rapha in a grand final and only narrowing losing by the smallest of margins an "Online hero".

I believe he also beat rapha in 2012 was it in a final? Beat him convincingly actually.

evil rapha cypher were like rock paper scissors for some years

I don't see how you can consider someone the best, while in the same sentence saying he's a pothead, meaning he's taken substances which many people acknowledge improves focus and concentration which could have played a part in his success. I don't know if what you say is true or not, but if it is, then if you're concerned about giving people a reality check, this is mine to you.....

Only a completely asocial virgin would think weed "improves focus and concentration".

Consider this my reality check to you.

I don't do drugs, but there are tons of threads on the internet which support the argument that certain strains of weed can be used for beneficial uses that would improve performance in many areas, including videogames.

https://tinyurl.com/y6zdffwx

So there is no reality check for me; only the continued belief that you're still in control of your initial point when it was you that.

1) praised the performance of someone while acknowledging they had drugs in their system which many think can improve performance.

2) Falsely implied I was wrong about the impact of weed being a positive addition to aid in game performance where there are thousands of threads that say otherwise.

I'm not going to keep highlighting the bad logic loop you've backed yourself into.

See? That is exactly what an antisocial virgin would reply with: "I never stepped outside my house in my life, but i read on the internet weed can have "potent" mental stimulating properties, akin to fallout universe mentats drugs."

Bitch, please.

Nobody, and i repeat, no-fucking-body uses weed as a ped in mentally taxing competitions.

"Nobody, and i repeat, no-fucking-body uses weed as a ped in mentally taxing competitions."

"Chess players are tested for drugs that appear on the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) banned list. There are more than 100 substances on the banned list. This includes steroids, Erythropoietin (EPO), amphetamines, diuretics, tranquilizers, beta blockers, cocaine, Ventolin inhalers, etc."

I then check the WADA list.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list

Scroll down to Cannabinoids

"ALL NATURAL AND SYNTHETIC CANNABINOIDS ARE PROHIBITED"

In cannabis (hashish, marijuana) and cannabis products

See ya,

Nothing, you're too autistic to understand the point and that you're just making a fool of yourself (as per usual).

Sure, chess competitions check for marijuana use. It's simply a pro-forma pr thing.

No chess player would ever smoke a blunt right before a match.

If you ever had any social interaction in your life you'd understand why.

"No chess player would ever smoke a blunt right before a match."

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/play...igh?page=2

Loads of people on that site alone say otherwise, I'll just leave you this quote....

"I play better stoned than sober. Helps me focus."

So just to confirm.

Chess players are playing chess stone and some are saying it makes them better due to being able to focus more, which goes back to my original point.

/Check Mate :)

Oh, WOOOOOW!

It's... straight from the mouth of LEGENDARY PLAYER "Erik_29"!! The greatest chess player of all times!

Oh no wait, it's a random fucking nobody shitposting his personal opinion on chess.com's misc forums, LMAO

Jamerio, are you drunk right now? Because you sound even more dissociated with real life than usual.

you said...

"No chess player would ever smoke a blunt right before a match.

When you were disproven, you then moved the goal posts and started attacking playerX without knowing anything about them.

Even if he wasn't a grand master, the person in question said smoking weed improves their ability to play, the complete opposite of what you said. And that was one of many on the interne.

I never heard of raisy, maxter, vengeur before quake champs, doesn't mean unknown, un-ranked/unknown players have no talent or merit or worthy of not being FPS or QUAKE players.

You got utterly destroyed.

You are utterly destroying yourself.

Weed makes you mentally slower, it's just a fact. No serious chess player would ever intentionally get high before a match.

Yes there's always some random fucktard that thinks he/she "actually drives better when high/drunk". Facts proves otherwise and that they're just putting themselves and others at risk.

And you clinging so desperately to that concept only reinforces that you've never been in a social setting around people high on weed.

Which, again, coming from you, a 40 years old virgin, isn't that surprising really. But if you weren't also so dumb you would understand without the need to having experienced it from first/second hand.

I don't need YOU (king of nothing) tell me the impact weed has on the entire population because there are people telling me online it has a different (POSITIVE) impact to what you are saying, as a result you are wrong, so shut your mouth and go take your meds and misplaced dominance to a soy bar where it carries some weight.

You don't speak for anyone else on the planet, so stop pretending you do.

You made a claim, you were proven wrong by nature of other people who said their experience was different to what you say.

END OF STORY.

I'm not entertaining anything else your narcissistic, psychotic personality disorder considers relevant.

P.S.

Virgin jokes are usually only made by people who have no sex life.
If you did, you would not be placing that much weight in the act.

According to your retarded logic, literally everything is a ped, since there's someone, somewhere on earth that CLAIMS he/she performs better on it, regardless of the scientific literature or common experience about it.

Is it clear enough how stupidly arrogant your thirst to "win arguments" at all costs make you sound, now?

Seriously, the fat must have completely filled up your brain cavity, you can't even crap out half logical arguments anymore.

You're probably over 400 lbs by now.

Like I keep saying, there are tons of examples out there of people telling you they perform better on weed than not across a variety of topics.

For example a number of players get nervous in quake at LAN, smoking weed can calm them down so even IF<< weed made their reactions a tiny bit slower, the impact of them being calm could more than make for that and make them a more effective player by being able to stay calm and aim better instead of shaking.

So yeah, a drug which calms your nerves and allows you to focus more -as many people say it does, big fucking advantage if you happen to be a nervous lan player, which is everyone is compared to playing in their bedroom/games room.

So, THERE IS a very winnable case for proving taking weed or anything which makes you feel like that is cheating, which his why its banned, not for the "just for the sake of it" reason you give.

You made a dumb ass claim claiming that you know how a banned drug impacts the performance of every person who takes it and because you were so keen to be seen as an expert, you forgot how dumb it makes you look.

You basically just took a big shit on Cypher, on the one hand you say he's a quake god, on the other, you tarnished him with drugs brush by telling us he's a pot head and then you tried to back pedal, but it was you who let the genie out the bottle.


/BYE.

What joke to say it helps you focus more. Absolutely retarded.

You can keep saying that, it won't make it any less wrong.

Getting stoned on LAN won't help absolutely anybody.

It doesn't matter if you parade it around as truth, it isn't and anyone who has had any direct or indirect experience with the matter will recognize how wrong what you said is.

You can't see it because you're a terminally online, clinically obese, permanently unemployable shut-in with no real life experiences and no common sense, living in your brother's apartment if he hasn't kicked you out already. And a desperate need to "win" internet arguments no matter how wrong or clueless you are on the subject, since you don't have anything else in your life worth anything.

This time, once again, you shat otuside the bucket. Don't try to call out people on arguments you're clueless on. It makes you look even more desperate than usual.

"You can keep saying that, it won't make it any less wrong."

Actually its not me saying it, there are loads of other people on the internet saying it including this very site.

https://www.esreality.com/post/1960375/cannabis-and-quake/


INSERT MORE BRAINS TO CONTINUE :)

Weed makes you mentally slower, it's just a fact. No serious chess player would ever intentionally get high before a match.

Yes there's always some random fucktard that thinks he/she "actually drives better when high/drunk". Facts proves otherwise and that they're just putting themselves and others at risk.

And you clinging so desperately to that concept only reinforces that you've never been in a social setting around people high on weed.

The most interesting part of this thread is despite the fact that there is proof of other people telling you their experiences are different to what YOU tell the world their experiences could possibly be, there is something so broken in your mind that you still can't accept their views and experiences and you expect people to some how listen to you :)

At this point,you're basically telling the world their side effects to a type of medication or drug are wrong, because yours were different.

At this point, you're telling someone who doesn't like a video-game you like they are wrong.

At this point... you're simply out matched and done.

But feel free to loop back to a point in time and pretend your comeback hasn't been answered already :)

Another one snagged and bagged!

Jamarion always ready to go, bent over ass cheeks spread.

One is anecdotal "lol I drive better when drunk", the other is scientific research backed up by real world data.

There was a load of scientific data which said the covid jabs were safe by the WHO and credible scientists, it doesn't change the fact that for a select few, it had a life ending impact which proves no matter what the science says, there are always exceptions.

i fucking Loooove science! i turne dmyself into a pickle morty LOL

You're talking with yourself and making arguments up in your head.

Your "argument" is literally that if 1 person in the world feels better on any substance included polonium or cyanide, then that thing must be a ped.

Which means literally anything and everything is a ped.

Everyone can see how insanely retarded your argument is.

Which is very on brand for you.

You're lying again.

I gave several examples of different people from this very website alone, and there are many many more on the internet.

At this point you're making up untrue claims about what I said in order to "correct" or "prove me wrong".

I love educating people though, so its all good.

You're lying again.

Even in your link to the esr thread, most people in there confirm weed absolutely make them worse.

So you're so stupid and dishonest you didn't even bother to read what you tried to bring as proof to back up your retarded claims, just hoping others would do the same.

I'm afraid you're still lying.

You said....

"Your "argument" is literally that if 1 person in the world feels better on any substance included polonium or cyanide, then that thing must be a ped."

That was never my arg, if it was you would be able to quote it.

You even admitted it was never my arg by changing your own wording..

I gave several examples on this site alone from a very small thread. Of which you then changed from saying I said "1" to flipping it around so "most people" was the new counter metric after I pulled you up on it.

If someone has a nut allergy, should they eat them because most people don't?

Like I keep saying, a percentage of people in the world obtain improvements from playing stoned, those are their words, not yours.

Your experience and feelings are irrelevant. Theirs are.
Imagine I tell someone whose allergic to nuts they are wrong, cos most are not. That's how dumb you are at this :)

If I can find several examples on ESR with less than a few people contributing to that thread, that tells me I could find many thousands more.

You're being schooled and archived in digital history.

Let's be honest my guy cannabis is not the devil I definitely agree on that and has been demonized for far too many decades because Government propaganda.

But in terms of competitive competition I highly highly doubt people use it in the top echelons. I could be wrong, but common sense tells me this as what nex1 pointed out earlier, it actually slows your reaction times because of how chilled out and calm it makes you.

Name me ANY UFC/Boxing fighter in the top 10 who uses cannabis in competition, same with any track athletes, football players any one in the top tiers of sport.

"Same with any track athletes"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/01/sports/oly...juana.html

That's the 7th fastest woman of all time in a sport where half a second slower means 5+ metres in distance.

Not all people are born with same reaction times, if a fast reaction quaker took weed, they would likely still have competitive reactions and possibly gain an advantage from being more relaxed.

Even been nervous at lan with shaky hands?
Its the worse thing ever.

"marijuana is a prohibited substance because it can enhance performance"

The more you know. I'm wrong :D always something new to learn every day it seems.

I'm afraid you're still too dumb to understand your very own arguments.

You literally said that if someone anywhere FEELS better under any substance, then that should be considered a ped.

Your words, not mine.

But science argues otherwise. Their feelings about it are irrelevant.

Otherwise you could claim mcdonalds' cheeseburgers are making you slim, but we all know that not to be the case.

1) The only person who used the word PED in this thread beyond me quoting you is YOU.

(CTRL+F)

2) You claim I literally said something, but I don't see the quote.

The reason you do this.

1) It allows you to imply someone said something they didn't to a casual reader who has no concept someone as disingenuous as you exists.

2) It prevents me from actually proving you wrong because I never said what you said and you won't provide a quote to me saying it showing others that I did not in fact say it.

So I simply expose the value system you work to and hang you there.

I do however have a quote from you...

"Nobody, and i repeat, no-fucking-body uses weed as a ped in mentally taxing competitions."

And WADA who control what substances say...

"WADA, which governs what athletes are and are not allowed to use, says it bans substances for three reasons: It can enhance or potentially enhance performance; it represents an actual or potential health risk; or it violates the “spirit of sport.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/why-cant-olympians-smoke-weed

So if its a case of listening to the ruling body on doping in sports, or some random nobody on a forum (whose head is probably fucked from taking drugs) me gonna go with the other people.

Just as I'm probably going to go to a doctor if I'm unwell Vs a witch doctor.

You truly are a shaman of knowledge in your own world :)

Your everything is a PED claim is dumb, its like saying heroin is the same as a coffee in the morning because it gives you a boost, just like heroin, or sleeping with a kid whose 9 is acceptable because age is just a number.

That's why we have rules to society, to stop that shit from ever being ok. You wanna be a druggy, go for it.

dunno man I'd probably give the witch doctor a try these days

Don't get ill is the best advice, shits gonna be like Elysium in 30 years time.

"1) The only person who used the word PED in this thread beyond me quoting you is YOU."

See, this is how desperate you are to deflet and mud the waters.

Your whole argument is based around the claim that marijuana enhances permormances, and is thus a PED.

Like.... if you can't even connect this, your brain is really mush at this point.

Like I said a million times.

There are people on this very website and all over the net that say otherwise to what you say. All proven above with links and real world accounts and counter experiences to what you claim.

So its not MY ARGUMENT, its MY OBSERVATION that tons of people are saying you're talking BS.

You're stuck in some kind of autistic loop. Its well funny.

Kiss and make up both of you.

this made me chuckle

rapha beat cypher in the flagship tournaments for QL - Dubai grand final, IEMIV semis (practically the grand final of that event), and IEMV group stage. Yeah, cypher beat rapha plenty of times afterwards but sheer quantity of victories isn't enough to judge greatness - you have to look at the circumstances under which matches were played. In this case we're talking about the difference between Dreamhack LANs and ESL IEM. Two substantially different competitive environments with differing levels of pressure and qualities of live coverage. As zero4 pointed out in an interview, it can be argued that cooller or czm were the greatest Q3 players, but who was it that reached the highest success in that game when it was at its popular and competitive height? Fat and Z4.

And yeah, you're right about cypher deteriorating his faculties through substance abuse. Cypher was a stoner secularist (atheist) and rapha was pious, and sober. This isn't to disrespect cypher or demean his great achievements, but it is to look at things with an objective lens now that the dust has long since settled.

Also, no offence man, but it's 2022 and you're still using reddit spacing. You gotta move on from that brother.

I don't have a clue what reddit spacing is, but the simple fact you browse that egregore of parasocial retards invalidates the rest of your argument.

Reddit is aids I agree.

I'd go further and say reddit is the death of the forums. It attracted all the users from all forums, then became shittier and shittier and ever more authoritarian, now they literally ban people for using the word "retard" or for accidental misgendering or for just not liking dogs (!), and there's nothing left. All the good forums of the past died.

You know it's bad when the downvote option eventually hides said comment, going directly against freedom of speech and expression.

I agree with all of your points. A cesspit leftie echochamber.

Also, fuck esr logging you off every time you get an upvote and the MASSIVE retard that programmed that shit.

You alright man?

Sure. Just because you're not used to people swearing freely on today's social medias doesn't mean i'm angry or anything.

"(...)doesn't mean i'm angry or anything. "

It's not so much the swearing but the fact that you make Jameiro look like a level-headed adult in your dialogue with him.

But to get back on topic: Cypher is a pothead. That's basically an euphemism for addict. If you take away the drugs from an addict, they are certainly not gonna be relaxed and focused lol.

"It's not so much the swearing but the fact that you make Jamerio look like a level-headed adult in your dialogue with him."


Hahaha, that one gave me a giggle

Nah you don't believe that. You just compared swearing on a '2000s forum to a guy who claims to have won baftas and being on par with the likes of Cooller just because he won a random ffa game sometime.

You also don't really believe that weed is a mental ped.

Your entire argument is that hypothetically stopping the intake of something that makes you dumber and slower would make you worse due to withdrawals.... And that's somehow an argument for it being a ped.

Wtf lol, that kind of logic makes Jamerios arguments sound logical and unbiased.

Social media man, the cancer of the internet.

I'd honestly take this place any day over it and I guess this place is technically "social media" but you know what I mean.

I totally agree with you btw.

Gone the days it seems where you could have a nice, mature civil discussion with people. It used to sometimes end up in trolling/name calling but these days it's name calling from the off.

1. cyber
2. zanzan
3. swex
4. fog
5. we don't have the 5th player atm

1. cyber
2. zanzan
3. swex
4. fog
5. bogOtac_ III

There's different definitions of good. Cypher was a top weed-improved secularist while rapha was a top man of faith

First rapha dominated for a few years.

Then cypher won one or two tournaments.

Then evil won every online cup.

But let's not forget, T1E won our hearts

1. daddy
2. daddy
3. daddy
4. daddy
5. daddy

He4rTL3sS

liliq

I agree with Rapha as best ever.
Next is evil and next is cypher.
Cooller has a great personality and has a great cult following, but over many years the results don't support him as the absolute best.
Clawz is an exceptional talent - at one point threatening to be the best QL player of all time, but then understandably started to put his attention towards QC and other games, relies a lot on aim rather than brain and it just feels like it's slipped from him to become the greatest ql player of all time at this point especially if he doesn't have the hunger and the drive to do it.
dahang always seems to be right up there but never quite at the peak itself - you might say he !!!!!!HANGS!!!!!!!! around.
k1llsen outstanding aim and a showman but his results on the big stage have always been lacking.
zero4 one of the true OGs that really started to get amazingly good at zero4, mentored rapha - but it probably took the learnings of his generation brought fresh to the new players to bring QL to its peak.
fatality bit of a gimmick, just played it for many hours at a time at first and that's the main reason he got good - evidenced by his early retirement.

phaxx

Fat was a good quake 4 and painkiller player and played them both for a relatively long time on tour beating plenty of top players, some of whom were considered top level quake III players.

Bit harsh dude.

Some might say that he even retired too early I mean he retired before he even hit 30 which is still relatively young just look at Rapha.

He definitely had a good number of years left and who knows how he might've done in Quakelive for example were he to take it as seriously as he took quake 3.

fatality bit of a gimmick

Being the best in the world in multiple games is not a gimmick lmao

are you sure? i mean he was only good because he practiced and competed continuously for years. once he stopped practicing and competing he stopped being at the top of his game, so basically he was a bit of a gimmick.

That's how most people are though?

If you stop practicing at something you won't be the best any more? So every one is a gimmick?

I think the gimmicky thing about Fat isn't his skillz, but more the ambiguous "11 times world champion" and gamer food and all that jazz. Although the industry is probably more to blame than the guy himself.



Hence "bit of a gimmick". Not entirely a gimmick. Guy was solid in the arena for a long time.

I can tell that exhibition was BS for one reason.

https://youtu.be/pF169CJMe54?t=364

No player worth a shit would fire rockets from that position on the map. I don't think stermy would lose to Fat on DM17 if he was playing seriously.

that's the joke

Agent and cyber are nowhere near top5 level.

1. Rapha
2. Cypher
3/4/5 Cooller / Avek / Evil

Rapha, Raisy(QC), Cyber, Evil, Cypher is my list. I don't like QC that much, but I think Raisy has shown to be one of the greatest of all time, and he wasn't even a Quake pro before QC. Who has ever risen to the scene to beat Rapha at his top form, with little to no time to do so? Not Evil, nobody really. If Raisy had played QL duel, and had actually got to understand the way it is played, most likely Evil vs Raisy would have been a 125FPS Classic matchup, probably more so than even Evil vs Cypher.

Here is a matchup between Raisy and Evil in QC. I haven't watched it yet.

Who's the best player?
C O O L L E R
O
O
L
L
E
R

Who's the best tournament winner? Who cares. The game is not called QUAKE TOURNAMENT for a reason.