[citation needed]

Thank God id realized that amateur outsource developers are no good at making iconic fps franchises, next step - stop outsourcing id games altogether and we get back to id style Texas quality of 90's Dooms and Quakes.

Alas, most of those people who made dooms and quakes in 90's are not working for id anymore.

They made Doom 4 so i would trust they still can make good games in-house without outsourcing, we need quality over content, i would rather play good quality quake live remake than some scribbled quake - world of tanks mashup parody like quake champions.

Was commenting on "quality of 90's". I liked Doom4 as a game, but not as a Doom game, if that makes sense.

doom 4 is a bit overrated though

Now take that fucking engine and throw it to trash can. Bring id tech where it belongs!

btw Russian article is based on Reddit comment

hackruu:

actually i can confirm this. only couple of graphics/art artists are working on Saber's side(need to finish 2 or 3 heroes before Rage2 release). December patch and ongoing was completely done by id/bethesda employees.

i had private talk with Saber employee. What kind of confirmation you need, insider's firstname/lastname with id card scan?

yes, vulcan port(which was actually almost ready) was cancelled in april 2018, because of disagreement between amd and bethesda.

kind of proof:

newest Saber's game — WWZ https://wwzgame.com/ uses Vulkan and have AMD logo.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/367578385?t=2h13m18s

Saber's UI artist asked in twitch chat if anyone at Saber working on QC, she responds "No, ID software only"

(video in Russian language)
video is deleted

First good QC news in a loooong time.

well.

ID is left alone with a broken saber engine.

that means, the current state will be the final one (forever).

right?

if they have to hire a new engineer for that engine, I doubt anything big will happen in the next 6 months ... that engine was written and maintend for years and if they wont reuse that engine for a future title, whats the purpose? Pretty sure the engineer behind sabre engine still work on it ...

Given that the engine has been in development since before 2003, worked on 5 different consoles, and has been repurposed over a dozen times, I highly doubt the code in there is a polished gem. :D

It must be a nightmare for someone laying eyes on it the first time.

Consolees? What? -_-

- I'd not interested before what kind of engine Bethesda made for QC, but "Quake on consolee engine" - it sounds like a solid humiliation of ID Software and all Quake Universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_Interactive#Saber3D_Engine

Halo engine!?! Omg... (facepalm)

welcome to Quake Champions!

- Good thing that i'm still play in Q3.

Halo: The Master Chief Collection

Everytime i see this i read it as Halo: The Master Chef Collection, like that stupid cooking show.

Haha :D

they put slam dunk code from shaq fu

idk why you guys see that as a positive news. This doesn't mean that id will drop this engine now, it means that id will have to deal with this crap alone, without saber engineers.

ids engineers are certainly more competent than sabre ones...so, they might get something out of it. But, I believe its better if they say that QC was a project that failed and start making new Q on id tech engine.

that will never happen.

and yeh id might have better engineers but one thing to realize is that they would have to work on broken engine that they dont know about rather than their own id engine. Wonder why next big update will be 'polishing and cosmetics' rather than fixing the engine? - cause they have no idea how to fix it.

QC is a dead project and there's no point closing it and starting from a scratch on id tech since there has been too much money pumped into this already and time aswell. Its been in development for 2 years already. They wont start again, bethesda wont allow it, they aint blind, they see that project is not worth any money and time.

Than its time all players get back to QL :)

QL is also a dead game.

Ofc its dead, its 20 years old lol... :D But QC is 2 years old and already dead and forgotten.

Yep, that 'saber' contact said the last few patches have been done by ID, and they were some of the shittiest shit ever.

Btw saberengine this - saberengine that, they have been clueless at level of basic game design, so why would even a new engine save that bunch lamers lead by a burger flipper? Just look back how they kept pulling dumbass game modes that nobody asked for out of their asses.

Well the thing is who is the programmer on id's side, because certainly he won't be one of their best ones since they are busy working on Doom 5.

And that answer is Syncerror and Sponge. The guys in the "special thanks" section of Doom 4 and who are only in charge of the side projects with zero budget. The dynamic duo of mapper + web developer doing something they just can't do well.

In recent days I've been making a QL config and that game has basic programming errors despite being worked on for like 10 years. Those two were the programmers. I'm giving you two examples.
1. r_aspectratio (command that in practice adjusts your mouse feeling like either 16:9 or 4:3) only works as 16:9 if r_mode is manually set to your resolution (23 for 1920x1080) instead of using the default setting of -2 (desktop), otherwise with the default r_mode setting then r_aspectratio doesn't work at all and it defaults to 4:3. Which means that pretty much everyone that picked up QL after that command was introduced (guessing about 2013) is playing with his mouse feeling like 4:3 when using a 16:9 resolution, ending up in the game feeling weird and likely lowering accuracies too. So all or almost all "noobs" are affected by this bug and don't know how the mouse is supposed to feel
2. The com_soundmegs hunkmegs zonemegs commands, that alter the amount of RAM assigned to each and hunk and sound do make quite a difference in mouse feeling and sound clipping, have to be manually changed in all the cfgs in the QL folder because the changes you make ingame are not saved (can't modify a command that has a latched value). Additionally, QL for some reason creates cfg files for all the configs you have ever created using the writeconfig command, and even if you deletr them they will reappear after opening QL, so that if you have 10 then those changes have to be done in all 10. And yes just changing autoexec and your usual current config is not enough: for some reason QL is reading more configs than autoexec, a bug that wasn't in Q3. Bare in mind the default setting for hunkmegs at one point was changed by the developers, affecting mouse feeling for the better, but for the described reason it didn't make any effect to people that at one point used the writeconfig command to incorrectly create a cfg that they never modified again (say megaman4), because in that one the old hunkmegs value is still in place. That unless 10 years after you decide to find a solution to the issue and finally fix your sound clipping problem due to the sound command being for some reason at 8 instead of 16 in some old ass config never used again and automatically created by QL, right. Guess this example shows like 10 bugs in one.

"Additionally, QL for some reason creates cfg files for all the configs you have ever created using the writeconfig command, and even if you deletr them they will reappear after opening QL, so that if you have 10 then those changes have to be done in all 10"

That's happening for one reason only - because you haven't disabled Steam Cloud for the game in Steam's settings, I've been telling people to do this as part of the process to properly clear and reset their config since ~2008. (final iteration of the support faq - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=560709175 )

And the game can't load any of those files unless they are either repconfig.cfg, qzconfig.cfg or autoexec.cfg or are files that are exec'd from within the version of those files on disc at the point the game finishes loading (Steam Cloud will overwrite the files as you start the game).

I see. Well too bad that's the default; not the players' fault but the developers' for supporting Steam Cloud.

Also -in case someone reads these comments in 10 years-, be aware you have to backup your configs before doing this. I know it's clear on the guide and implied on your post but you never know.

edit: BTW I looked at your guide and saw this command called r_primitives 2 (default 0). Would I gain anything with that if I have zero FPS problems in QL? I mean I would rather not mess with that stuff if possible, unless it's advantageous somehow.

r_primitives [-1|0|1|2]
-1 = skips drawing
0 = uses glDrawelements if compiled vertex arrays are present, or strips of glArrayElement if not.
1 = force strips
2 = force drawElements

it became problematic when left on the default of 0 on some cards (or maybe drivers) it was using strips instead of the superior drawElements on cards that did actually support drawElements .

So, basically, if you don't see any problem, leaving it is fine, but also 2 is also fine unless trying it starts to actually cause you problems for some reason (highly unlikely on a modern GPU)

I never use writeconfig but if I understand it correctly it writes and entire config which is basically every command in qzconfig.cfg

So thats a really bad thing...

(random example)
Say it begins hunkmegs 8
Then you write it to a config hunkmegs 8
They come along and patch it hunkmegs 16
Now you load your config and its back at hunkmegs 8.

That could happen for any command where your old config is messing up things that have changed with new patch.

So dont use it.

Just make autoexec yourself with notepad, and only put in commands you are actually changing. Leave everything else out. Then you arent locking in settings to the config and reverting things to old values when you never mean to chage them in the first place.

My autoexec has only the things I change. Everthing else sits inside qzconfig.cfg which is not for us to touch.

I would commonly re-install QL and drop in my autoexec.cfg and it works fine, nothing is being pulled from outdated CFG files this way.

And for the thing you say with r_aspect and sensitivity I dont know, but have your tried just using the commands like this way:

seta r_mode -1
seta r_displayrefresh 144
seta r_customwidth 1920
seta r_customheight 1080

Also as far as I know the mouse can only feel as 4:3, because the game only is 4:3. When its 16:9 its still 4:3 just with more pixels on the sides.

And im not trying to say there are not errors and quirks in the code, just that I dont see those doing it this way.

Yeah, the mouse can't really be in a 4:3 or 16:9 mode. You move it a certain distance at a certain speed, and it rotates you the corresponding angle---regardless of visual settings.

But I believe it is possible to render at 4:3 and have that 4:3 image stretched out onto your 16:9 screen, and that will cause the mouse to feel quicker horizontally than vertically.

At the end of the day the thing is the mouse feels weird. It's a wide-looking resolution with the feeling of a non-wide resolution.

And as I said if you didn't modify those different settings then that's the default in QL on Steam, unless you modify other commands different than r_aspectratio because without them then said aspectratiocommand doesn't work. That is a clear example of spaghetti coding and so of the programmers sucking at their job. and those programmers are likely the ones that would be assigned to this project if Saber is dropped from the project.

Yeah, sounds like what you get when there is a mismatch between r_aspectratio and the resolution you're using. I remember testing it years ago to get the so-called "fat mode", but that was before QL went to Steam. I don't know about the bug you specifically mentioned. Sounds nasty.

It's not really a bug but spaghetti coding. Too bad that's the default setting for people that bought the game on Steam and didn't have a config from before that, right.

Interweb told me that r_aspectratio is not supposed to do anything and is readonly cvar that you can check to figure out if you currently using 4:3 or 16:9 for HUD shenanigans.

This could be good news. Suppose the contract between id Software and Saber included monthly payment for engine support/development. Clearly Saber has been coming up short on that front. If id finally came to their senses with all the issues left unresolved, maybe they've canceled their contract with Saber and reallocated the money that would otherwise go to Saber for some real in-house dev time.

Even though Carmack is gone, id Software still has some amazing programmers. Maybe it is a bit too hopeful, but suppose, over the next few months, they bring in some of the legends who worked on DOOM (2016) and they'll not only fix the performance and netcode issues with QC but they'll also make the game run as good as DOOM did.

i guess, if they come up with a new engine (lets take the current doom engine) and announce it as QC 2.0, people will go crazy and finally enjoy the game.

the technical issues are so huge atm, that its no wonder that nobody wants to play it.

I don't think it needs to be full-scale replacement of engines. That's like doing brain surgery with a shotgun.

Instead, hopefully there are ways they could fix QC's engine by focusing on where it is choking up. Surely they've got a debug mode where they can see what is taking the most time to draw on screen and focusing on the areas where they can have the biggest impact.

You are all crazy and clueless. Restarting in a new engine? What in the fuck, do you have any idea how much time and work would that require?!

Never gonna happen, it's an insane idea even for a well polished and thriving game, much more for a dying "niche" game like this.

Also, december's patch, made entirely by Id, required two "hotfixes" just to fix what the patch broke. And you think id will fix stutter and lag?

Seems that too many in here are too young to know quake 4 and it's awesome engine. That was all Id, no saber scapegoat.

Id can't make good games since 2003.

DOOM (2016) was great.

As for the engine, sure that would be a HUGE undertaking and would never happen to move QC from Saber's engine to some in-house engine. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that aspects of Saber's engine couldn't be replaced. Surely they can run some debug mode to see where performance is weakest and focus on these things. Maybe it is lighting or maybe there's some weakness with geometry which they could fix with their own in-house code.

It would remain shit until they fix the engine AND enable modding. In 25+ years ID software has proven that the only way they can have a good multiplayer game is to produce a good engine and let the community turn it into a proper MP. Sabre can have the blame for the engine here but the truth is this game was always destined for the trash without modding.

Surely they can run some debug mode to see where performance is weakest and focus on these things.

And Sabre engineers couldn't do that? well, last patch made by ID didn't bring any fixes to the game, next patch made by ID scheduled for MARCH will bring 'polishes and refinement'. Yeah, i see how these godlike id engineers are working 24/7 trying to reincarnate a dead game. Sure.

id's team has changed since quake 4 as far as programmers go

here's one example: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/cryteks-principal-...-software/

daikatana switched from q1 to q2 engine and look at how succ... no i can't even finish the sentence

Wrong about Q4, it was made by Raven Software, another outsourcer. Its the same mistake that they made then.

edit: Q4 only got better/fixed when id Software made the patches 1.3 and 1.4, but by then it was too late.
In my opinion that won't be enough for QC though, as the problem there is in the name: "Champions"

champion mechanics arent a problem anymore.

????

id actually made q4 much more enjoyable once they started patching it after raven shitware stopped working on it. But I sincerely doubt that will be the case here, this game is going to be completely dead pretty soon.

Pretty sure the community made q4 the game it should be.

...all under the guidance of one persistent and possibly deranged British fella.

he actually did a good job

AnthonyJ for the win!

xbattle vs q4max
that was fun.

True for pretty much every Quake game. Well it's even true for quakelive (since the community had to repeatedly point out what's needed from the quake 3 mods).

That is very true, but patch 1.3 really made the game imo

Well it was almost impossible to make it worse to begin with

Only clueless say that they are gonna restart QC in a new engine...

Why didn't they just say that. Makes good sense now, that they need 1-2 months to refactor parts of the engine then.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear, really delighted about this.

Yep, this is good, we’re happy with this, we can see this, we understand the meta.

Wow, this feels good, this feels like i can compete

As if it matters which team of retards is working on QC. No mod-support means no good Quake, end of story.

what mods do you need?
it was different in 1999, when quake 3 was basically very barebone and had zero features.

qc offers way more than q3 out-of-box.

Especially in the bug department.

Q3 came out with 29 maps out of the box. Four of them for Ctf. It had a working single player mode. Qc again?

Actually 30 maps. Forgot DM0. Sorry crash!

Enter the portal to begin combat

Wow out of decoupling physics from netcode, brightskins, defrag, cpm, ra3, you went with a bunch of maps nobody plays.

Solid.

A bunch of maps that people actually did play upon release and continued to do so against bots. Versus a bunch of shit maps in QC that no one likes. Poor comparison buddy.

It was a point that maps pale in comparison to: gamemodes(ra3), gameplays(cpm), don't even know how to classify defrag, and actual technical engine improvements. All of which were the community's doing. Not that blood run or aerowalk are id's creation anyway.

He specifically wrote "q3 out-of-box". And I kinda agree, that QC has more variety than vanilla Q3 had.

He began with "What mods do you need?", implying qc has anything more than baseq3. Which I don't see. At least baseq3 had a console.

Don't want to be picky...

you also forgot

TestBigBox :o)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ew5XCoVQE0




In EVERY single way Quake Champions Fails.
It's not fit to be mentioned on the same page as Quake III

many shitty maps though ... the only thing that differentiates q3 from q4 and qc is basically an engine that works as it should and community trying to get the best out of it via modding, mapmaking ...
for me personally the real quakes were q1 and q2, both had a decent sp and had great movement ... q3a did neither have bunnyhopping, aircontrol or doublejumping ... q3a was already not treated as a full fledged game imho. and was somewhat a half-assed effort, it was more an engine demo and they also sold q3 engine to many game makers back then ... it is still quake though and can be enjoyed, but it just lacks a certain crisp the predecessors had, no good movement and lack of good maps ... if they had invested a good amount of energy into q3a, counterstrike wouldnt have become the no. 1 game ... and ql in the beginning was just like q3a and only later on changed to q2 movement etc., I think ql at the latest stages with many new maps is again a real multiplayer quake that equals q1 and q2, but yeah, q1 and q2 were brandnew, and ql just a reshuffle of an old game ... not bad, but not so great either ... but what was really bad about it, were the lack of features for communication, matchmaking etc., they basically already tried to milk the quake fans with that game ...
I dunno, there is a reason quakecon is called quakecon, there is a reason gaming irc net is called quakenet ... while people try to tell deathmatch gaming began with doom now, it just wasnt the case back then, you couldnt really play doom via tcp/ip, some people might have called in some emulated modem network from mplayer, but thats not many, real deathmatch began with quake ... and all the modding, in doom people maybe made maps or exchanged sprites, but there was no new gamelogic, real modding only began with quake, and that is some great heritage as well, even the first machinima was done in quake ... it is so sad ... how id neglected quake in favor of doom, they should have hired as many people for a quake title as for doom, they definitely had the money for it, quake has a much bigger heritage than doom ever will have, these doom mods created now that old doom is opensourced are basically a drop in the ocean compared to the mods created back then for quake ... remember teamfortress? That was originally a quakemod! That shits being released for doom will never equal quake ... it is just so sad to see how they did not try to make anything with that heritage and have basically kicked quake into the trash bin!

these doom mods created now that old doom is opensourced

Old doom was open-sourced in 1997.

It's true most people didn't deathmatch in Doom over the internet, but you could still play deathmatch (and co-op) with friends over the modem or serial cable, and I spent many hours doing just that. It was definitely worth all the effort back then because it was such a new thing. Back in the 90s, there were lots of map packs available for Doom.

To be honest, it wasn't until broadband internet became widely available that deathmatch on the internet (in any game) really took off. Even when Quake 3 came out, I was still on the high ping 56k modem, and that's what most people had at the time.

Yeah open sourced in December 23, 1997, so basically 1998 ...
quake mods have been in the making for 2 years already back then,
and who would really try to build a mod, when he could do it as well in quake with a nice engine ...
the doom you see nowadays wasnt available back then, the textures the graphical filters, etc ...
and remember planetquake or bluesnews, these sites were FILLED with numerous news on quakemods that were released every day!!!
I dont remember any planetdoom being around or any site similar to planetquake ... yeah quake 3 was the title that was "fresh" when many more people got broadband internet ... but irc quakenet and quakecon were both created in times of Q1, and id gave quake already a multiplayer focus with QuakeWorld!

You made it sound like Doom mods are a new thing.

I'm sure pre-1999 Quake was great for the very few people with a good enough connection to get the most out of it.

I wouldn't call Q3's amount of maps, the number of console variables and the ability to spawn your own server with retarded settings "very barebone and ... zero features".

But your main logic fail is this:

qc offers way more than q3 out-of-box.

For QC it matters what it offers out of the box, because your are limited to the developer's competence and we all know how this will end. >:)
For Q3 it didn't matter what it offered out of the box, because whatever was missing could be and was added through mods.
That is why most of the time when people talk about Q3, they actually mean OSP for Q3, which added insane amounts of competitive features on demand in a polished manner.
In OSP I could control the the width and height of HUD elements while making my hex-colored name glow in the scoreboard; in QC I can't even hide my weapon or set r_picmip.

Are you really arguing that qc offers more out of the box? I would fucking hope so 20 years later...It is fucking sad what qc offers.