CA is already in the game, and as far as I know instagib is planned

Because CA has no objective, the optimal way to play for even teams is both teams sit on opposite sides of the map and no one ever attacks. All matches end in draw.

Though I'm sure this has been discussed to death and I am likely incorrect.

Objective is to get biggest score, the same as in all other gametypes. The same tactic applies to any other mode just as well and seeing that no one really uses it, it's probably not optimal.

The objective is to win and you don't win in CA by getting the biggest score.

Show me a game where a team with not the biggest score won.

I don't have a game on hand because when it happens, it's mostly on 1vs1, 2vs2, which I don't play.

That said, I thought you meant "get biggest score [as an individual]", not "get the biggest score [as a team]". Those are totally different things.

Yeah. Because, you know, it's not like that wasn't obvious seeing as CA is a team game... The same scoring mechanics as in TDM apply. Re-read your comment a couple of times to make sure I'm not just misreading. Concluded that you're just dense.

I already admitted I was wrong. I think my thought process was influenced by those "playing for the [individual] score" vs. "playing as a team" discussions surrounding CA. But heh, I'm not searching for excuses. If posting just to call me dense is all it takes to make you happy that's a good thing I guess.

obviously you aren't a golfer

No, I prefer BMW.

In modes with items, camping allows your opponent to gather more than enough health/armor to overcome your positional advantage.

i think this post was pretty cool

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...#post94047

cliffs?

Limited strategy. quake is about resource control: grabbing weapons, armor, power ups, ammo on the map. also positioning. resources force people to move from one place to another.

in CA there's no resources, you got all guns and armor from the start.. so no one has to move-- #2 summed it up, technically to "win", everyone should hole up in a campy room with superior positioning and wait, refusing to budge.

instead we have this weird unwritten rule that everyone meets in a given room and blasts the crap out of each other. then people get really mad if their team doesn't win, and they tell their whole team to move to a separate room. then teams spam each other from a distance, and boredom ensues.

quake is about resource control

O rly, says who?

Imagine cs without without hostages or bombs and without self or friendly damage, but with rocketjumps and only objective is to kill the other team before they kill you. Thats CA.

I like it because: its mindless fun and it can be very relaxing. Also its good for warmup.

I hate it because: It tends to be very repetitive, it usualy focuses on a small part of map and since there isnt any objective other than killing the other team there is always that one fucker on your team who just uses rail an runs

like- fun, relax time in quake live

hate- bitch elo whores take it serious =]

Each and every match is serious.

GORTOPUFUCKINNUBNOOOBFUCKUUKICKBAN=]

lol ca

Warmup in csgo pretty much sums it up.

I hate CA

Why?

It's not Quake.

So do you hate everything that isn't Quake, or just CA?

Just CA.

And shitty arena fps ripoffs.

I dont know what the cool part of it, a game where you spawn with all weapons and armor its like there is no reason to move. I can see it as a nice way to warm up but thats it

There's plenty of reason left to move. How about not letting your opponent kill you?

With everyone equipped with an equal full stack of health, armor, and weapons, Quake becomes a game that's less about who can memorize every part of the DM6 and ZTN map layout and gather the most resources, and more about which player has better movement and aim techniques. The best Quake players always manage to stay alive in CA due to their individual mastery of movement and aim techniques, even if the rest of their team is subpar / mediocre.

If you only play Quake / FPS to gather and stack up on resources and items, perhaps you should switch genres.

so CA is the ultimate quake experience, right? interesting.

I never claimed that. I just strongly disagree that Quake was made with such an intense focus on resource gathering to the point where "there is no reason to move" if you're already equipped with all of the resources necessary to win. Miseducated statements such as that insult Quake, and the FPS genre as a whole.

With that said, the ultimate Quake experience is whatever you enjoy the most, whether that be Duel, CA, Instagib, CTF, TDM, etc.

Im interesting in whichever mode takes more skill

That's the thing. There's no gametype that takes "more or less" skill than another. Unfortunately that's a common misconception amongst the Quake community, but it's not that simple, never has been.

Let me explain: Each gametype focuses on a different set of skills and techniques. Example: Duel emphasizes on memorization and timing, CTF places an emphasis on speed and agility, Instagib/Rail-only has an emphasis on fast reaction times/twitch aim & reflex, CA has an emphasis on placement & strafe dodging, etc.

In Quake, there's no gametype that dominates another in terms of skill requirement, IMO.

Case in point: I've witnessed first hand amateur duelers destroy veteran CA players. I've also witnessed first hand amateur CA players destroy veteran duelers.

Sure you might be the best player in Duel, or CA, or CTF, but what happens when you get owned in another gametype? To hold the title of the best, means you aren't afraid to get out of your comfort zone and try your hand at something different.

I have no respect for so called pros/prowannabes who only play "CTF" or "Duel" and nothing else, ever. To me that attitude says that they're only in it for the money, and when the cash cow is fully milked, they'll be the first to jump ship.

After a few hundred games; pub CA is about getting less "disabled fucking retards" on your team than the opposing team gets.

Are you seriously faulting CA based on its pub gameplay? That logic can be applied to any team-based game. A&D, CTF, TDM, FT, etc. are no different.

Stop trying to be a pub hero and you won't have that problem lol.

rofl

CA is good if ure not a quakeprowannabe and especially if you dont care if you win or lose so you can rush ppl as much as you want. i play it just because i can jump around, shoot ppl and clear my head from other things. if i wanted to occupy my mind with something, it sure as shit wouldnt be quake.

but its terrible when someone stays in one room and camps. example: hidden fortress lg room + mindless spam makes me wanna puke

CA is boring and crap

insta is alright but I miss the VQ3 days of DM17 insta duels with rail jumps

you might consider CA a lesser gametype all you want, but it's actually the most played gametype on quakelive judging by the amount of servers and players playing it every night as compared to let's say TDM, CTF, Duel, etc.

TDM and CTF have cups, tournaments etc. but the player base is elitist and very small.

If reflex didn't have CA they would definitely shoot themselves in the foot as only the pro / elite quake players would buy/play it. That'd be a very tiny community, a bit like what warsow or painkiller had.

but it's actually the most played gametype on quakelive

So what, there is no real community, very little organisation, tournaments, clans etc. People will just dissolve into thin air as soon as quakelive shuts down, while deathmatch community has been going strong for decades.

I guess good feelings don't pay the bills.

I assume by deathmatch you mean tdm?
because there is no real ffa community apart from those little ffa tourneys that the FFA clan organised for a little while.

it could also be said that the rocket arena / clan arena community has been around for decades since the very first quake.
there are many clans, and some tournaments these days.

Don't get me wrong I really like playing TDM and watching the big TDM games with top players, but you can't deny rocket arena / clan arena has been around for ages and doesn't look like it's dying any time soon.

Deathmatch - ffa, tdm, duel etc. Whoever gets more frags - wins. Ofc I had ctf in mind too. You're right, but this actual CA scene you speak of seems even smaller than duel/tdm/ctf and there is certainly less happening there.

http://ql.leeto.fi/#/

As somebody who has over 2k games of both ca and instagib, all I can say is that they are basically about "just shooting the green robot" and doesn't require much of a strategy or keeping timing of items, it leaves you with just pure combat - you dont have to pick up weapons and stack armor with health, you can rocket jump/rail jump as long as you have ammo. So if you are lazy fuck who just cant time items, but still wants to have fun in quake and actually win without much of an effort apart from shooting well - ca and instagib is made for you.

In the end all I can say is that people who are playing ca/instagib non-stop are sad people who just couldnt adapt in other gamemodes cuz they require more in-deapth strategy

As someone who has over 200k games of both CA and Instagib, your opinion means nothing.

sad people who just couldnt adapt in other gamemodes cuz they require more in-deapth strategy

Wouldn't*.

Indeed, TDM/CTF/Duel are richer gamemods in terms of meta than CA. But stating that CA-exclusive's players are sad people who just couldnt adapt in other gamemodes cuz they require more in-deapth strategy is foolish.

or maybe the "sad people" are those who have so much time in their hands that they can learn how to control maps and time items, and spending countless hours practising those skills.
That's how some of my friends who play only CA see duel and tdm.

all a matter of perspective.

I think that is his point.
You write as if it costs extra time to learn those things, while in fact they can just do that instead of continuing to play CA.

if you only play quake now and then every few weeks because of other priorities, like I do most of the time, you usually can't be bothered to play 1v1 duel against some nerds who practice the same maps over and over.
Timing items can be a drain to a lot of people, and playing 1v1 even more so when you have the opportunity to play with more players instead (FFA, TDM, CA, etc.).

Then TDM and CTF servers are dead, the only real option for that is to play IRC pickups.

There are a lot of people who play quake for fun and don't really care about the most competitive modes which require more dedication, timing items, learning the maps and strategies by heart etc.

I used to play mostly duel in quake4 and then in the beginning of quakelive, when back then I had lots of time in my hands (student and single at that time). But even then I didn't find it that fun, it was all about the competitive aspect and winning.

Nowadays if I do find a bit of time to play, I just want to have fun and FFA, CA, and some TDM do that for me :)
So I totally understand people who play only CA/Instagib, it's not because they're sad, it's because they have a life and just want some fun.

That's why CA needs some different rules. CA should be 4v4 with weapon loadouts. Each player on a team gets 2 weps, once a player chooses those 2 weps than they are unavailable to the other 3. So each player on a team has a unique pair of weapons. It would make things interesting, makes having a random ass rocket jump fest at bridge non-existent

it's not a bad concept to be honest, could be a different gametype. (although in public servers it might be messy)
there are 8 weapons if you include the HMG, so 2 per player in a 4v4 would make sense.

It’s not that I hate ca, it’s just that I do not see the point in playing it when the vastly more fun ffa is also available. ffa > instaffa > ca.

I'm not sure about that. Original ffa, sure, but loadouts killed ffa (and tdm), they now sucks bad. It's all a brainless spamfest. At least in ca people don't spawn 2 metres from you.

New ffa is to old ffa what ql ca is to cpma ca.

CA is fine. Just because there are less objects or aspects of the game mode than TDM, CFT and duel doesn't make it bad, it just makes it different. Yeah it is less complicated than the other modes, but some people just enjoy the speed, action and simple tactics of quake without having to focus on deeper aspects. Nothing wrong with that really.

The only problem with CA is when the players idea of the unwritten rules aren't identical. Pretty much every experienced CA player know these rules (like meeting, occupy every enemy and don’t screw the team), but newer players don't know these rules and they end up fucking the team and enrage the teammates.

I think CA is better suited for competitive play, and welcoming to newer players if the maps played supported the game mode’s idea better, by i.e. making camping impossible or at least harder. There are many “useless” areas in almost every played CA map that should be cut away. Just like that old Q3 overkill remix, where half of “unused” part was removed, and the meeting point was modified to fit the changes. Of course +back +rail would still be possible, like on Asylum which is pretty much just one room, but it would hinder it a bit I think.

CA as a competitive mode is fairly broken, stale, uninteresting and bnot deep at all. We all know it and it was written in stone for the ages with the laughable qcon ca tournament

ok.

People think of ca as of "lesser" game mode because most of it is intangible and if you don't want to deep dive in it, you pretend that things that you can't formalize don't exist at all.

Other gametypes have some easily measurable things: like in duel you can easily argue that woever controls most of the items has some advantage, or people move to a particular place not because they like some morning excercise, but for a specific reason, for example, that it gives them good shot on an opponent who needs to get an lg. These are things that are easily recognized and so a gametype like duel makes a lot of sense to experienced quake player, because he can easily name what decisions made players to get advantage, etc.

In contrast, ca has very few things that you can point to and give them a name. From experience, people learned that some positions on maps are better, so they tend to gather there. But even if you take first few seconds before the game starts, there's a lot of stuff happening which doesn't have any physical representation in game world or expression in a worded language. For example, everyone knows that team should meet bridge. However, even when both teams know it perfectly well, many times one of the team fails to do that. It might be that one team pwned some noobs 10:0, meeting bridge every round, then they played a stronger team, and they escaped from bridge every time, even though they had no problem gathering there in previous game. Why did that happen? Some players sometimes do a bridge to rail jump before the start. Sometimes they don't. What influences that decision? In duel it's easy so say that a player did something to cut off enemy from an item, or to get a rail shot after enemy gets an ra. But how do you reason these decisions in ca? Why sometimes you make a bridge2rail, and in other times you don't, and in some other times you prefer to stay at rl if there are no items or weapons on map so you can't point to any thing that you get yourself or prevent enemy to get by your positioning? So most people can't analyze ca because they have no words for intangible things that govern a ca game, and if they can't analyze it then they try to resort to everything that's left quantifiable like primitive accuracy numbers, and because there are so few such things, then it means for those people that ca has less parameters and therefore is a lesser mode.

But in my opinion it's for the same reasons actually a deeper mode than one with easily recognizable things. In any case, between 2 teams there's one winner and one loser, so if you take 8 people who think ca is an easy mode, separate them into 2 teams and clash them together, at least half of them will realize that they're wrong.

Nice wall of text but i'm not convinced. These things that you 'can't analyse' happen in duel too. E.g on ztn when you are at mega and no items are spawning for 15 seconds which way do you take? Do you rj up to gl do yo go ra or lower ya tele? Do you rj up from ya? If so to rl or to sg? do you go upper ya? Answer is you do each of these some amount of the time and its not a conscious decision. Its more or less random. ca has probably even less of these 'random' decisions because positions are actually very limited. Therefore it seems reasonable to me to call ca a much less complex gametype. Which is not a bad thing at all.

Faceit has a ca tournament. The best ca team ever attends. They manage to get out of the first round by 1 round against a bunch of people who are from another mode and basically never play CA. That's your profound intangible deep gamemode..
A mode where you have no reason at all to move at all, nor you are punished for just backing and backing. Or if you wanna look at it this way, a mode where you have no reason to step outside your comfort zone.
CA as an esport would be boring and shallow.

The games been close, cause the bunch of people who are from another mode and basically never played CA (never played CA... yeeee ;D) ran like chickens. If they faced (h3h3) them head on, they would have been destroyed. faces vs FRA (guismo, winz, fishbone) is a good example for "destroyed". And it has been 3v3, which is the most random setup and benefits the +back style.

The problem with CA is, that you cant enjoy it as a viewer.

The games been close, cause the bunch of people who are from another mode and basically never played CA (never played CA... yeeee ;D) ran like chickens. If they faced (h3h3) them head on, they would have been destroyed.

That's precisely the point though! Good CA strategy is boring and annoying, so you need this unwritten rule that teams should face each other head on. The more seriously it is taken (i.e. the harder everyone is trying to win), the worse it gets.

Actually as a player i enjoy both styles. In the last HoQ season the russian team FTi played different positions, +backing & camping. To beat them you needed a different approach. Its been fun to figure it out.

Still it sucks for the viewer, cause the actions which decide about winning or losing are so tiny and its happening so fast, that it barely can be casted.

Maybe casters could help to build a "castable" concept for CA. From my experience with Faceit, 2v2 been easier to cast then 3v3. Maybe mixing up teamsizes inbetween games, decide as a team who will play or even loadouts in some rounds could make it more fun and watchable.

And matchmaking + skins for some real value ;)

Instagib is basically let's just say people with smaller hands. Why? Because people with smaller hands use smaller mouse, therefore easier to hit flick shots. Bigger hand people tend to play CA, no skill required zone.

I have big hands and small mouse (razer deathadder), and hit flick shots.
your theory is flawed. :p

Well there are variances. I mean, if your hand is big and you're using small mouse, you're pretty much going to cramp up your hand eventually. Not sure if that's a good compensation for good flick shots.

it's called sacrifice for skills.
nah really my hand is fine the way it's positioned on the mouse :)

The razer deathadder is one of the biggest mice around.

is that what you consider a small mouse then?

[img]http://d1qv53vvfy0ptp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/usb-mouse.jpg[/img]

The razer deathadder is considered one of the biggest (and heavyest) gaming mouses in every mice list or site.

In fact, between the most used gaming mouses, it's the biggest one.

But be proud of your ignorance if you wish.

I tried a few logitech mice that felt massive in comparison. but maybe it's still a big mouse, whatever

can you take a picture of how you position your hand on top of that small mouse? If not, then yeah, it's not really a good idea. I know someone who had to do hand surgery. I forgot what happened but it was because of the undersized mouse for his hand.

it's not on top, it's behind it.
http://s2.postimg.org/gbkkukxtl/DSC_1640.jpg

yeah that does seem a bit too small. Look at how you're squeezing it with your thumb and pinky. You should try Rival from Steelseries. I absolutely hated that mouse since I prefer smaller mouse.

You're basically rubbing your palm to the pad. That's incorrect. Correct way is palm up elbow down. You need a bigger pad liek ss giant pad like Shane to avoid injuries.

lawl, the sense of ca?

Ladies and Gentlemen, believe it or not, but it is FUN.

Yeah i know, how unexpected huh? But seriously, isn't that all about in ca?

The most fun is flying around with lightspeed through the map, getting nice shots. Air rockets, brilliant flickrails etc. (note: not on start!)
Escaping 1v4, feeling the pulse which raising up instantly and enjoy the adrenaline?

Thats it. Thats why i play this. If you really just meet at upper, holding your finger on ATTACK and spam as you can, then, good sir, you might be just an idiot who cant play proper quake xD

btw, If you really want a goal in ca, then play A&D. Its clanarena with flags.

Depends with the people you play with.

*depends on

they should make CA like CS and introduce money. imagine having to buy an LG for $3200. lololo

Nice idea but no. No market.

No dollars! Donuts!
Collection donuts like some motherfuckin' Sanic.

I haven't played much of Quake insta but i do play it in UT, for some time now. Actually i have always played nwCTF and never liked instagib but after taking some time off from gaming i came back to UT and tried instagib, iCTF to be exact.
I have to say that it's probably one of the most, if not the most, exciting mod I've played. And now i continue to play it in the new UT that's going to be released some time in the future.

The reason I like it is because it's very simple, as you don't have to manage multiple weapons and you don't have to time items. Even tho many people will say that it makes it too easy compared to other nw mods, I have to say that it's the simple things that are always the greatest. The sheer excitement of knowing that one shot can kill you, that every potential miss from your end can mean your doom is just overwhelmingly exciting. Don't get me started on what that means in a iCTF fight, 3 sec on the clock left and ur 1 m from the flag about to cap while carrying your opponents flag and getting shot right at that moment...let's just say the vast number of emotions surfacing at that moment is just amazing. Pure anger, frustration and yet endless joy to know that this can actaully happen, and that it did happen, and you're apart of it.

Not to mention that your skill can be a game changer especially at the right time, giving crucial cover to your flag carrier or just defending ur flag against 4 people and knowing one shot from your opponent can force you to respawn, as you are hit.

All in all it's an amazing mod to me. I converted totally to this mod, it's so tense and nerve-racking and easy to get in and out of and above all, great fun!

the reason why ictf can be alot of fun, even pretty competitive in our own little community, is because its easy to play but hard to master. there are people playing instagib for 10+ years and still have alot to learn. sadly our community is slowly dying)

What exactly about iCTF is hard to master? (In comparison to, CTF)? Not trying to be a dick just looking for a serious explanation on the subject, as I've seen a lot of mixed opinions about the legitimacy of iCTF and Instagib in general within the Quake community

First off you can't compare iCTF to CTF .... Theres many more moving parts in CTF. It's a much bigger learning curve when you add in controling items to the mix.

The great thing about iCTF is anymore can jump into as its a great starting point for a lot of players. The part kyz said about it being easy to play but hard to master is a very accurate statment. You don't get weapon mismatches in iCTF so you can have a freshly spawned player run into your base and destroy your D so map positioning and timing are key even more so than having great aim. Caps generally happen a lot faster in iCTF opposed to CTF and lead to much more high scoring games. Also you see much more come backs in iCTF as you can get Caps in bunches so its not uncommon to see a 3-4 Cap lead disappear.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. It sounds like you have a lot of experience in iCTF.

With that said, how do you view players who play iCTF competitively as opposed to players who play CTF or Duel? Do you feel as though the arguments and ridicule against iCTF players are justified? Would you consider iCTF to be a legitimate form of high-level competitive play to be played at major eSports events?

I started out in iCTF but branch out to other game types over the years.

I feel each game type is unique in its own right and can teach you different things. However generally speaking CTF players tend to be the "best all around" players and are able to adopt into other gametypes the easiest. The top tier iCTF players (which I'm not even certain you can call them that as they play other game types) are very good players that could be successful in other gametypes and even games for that matter if they chose too. I mentioned this before but theres a huge skill gap within insta between the top level players and the bottom players and there isn't much inbetween so most of the criticism comes from people that don't play it regularly and most likely just played or saw pugs being played on public servers with said bottom players.

It will never be featured at a major lan event and in all honesty shouldn't as thoes type of things should feature the best players playing the most challenging game they can which will always be CTF or TDM in Quake. It would be nice for it to be displayed as a side event however.

Great post! Hit most nails on the head. It's refreshing to see someone knowledgeable post on ESR who can speak from their experiences. I have a couple more questions:

What makes CTF players tendency to be well rounded greater than iCTF players? I ask this because I've seen some of the greatest CTF players perform relevantly terrible at iCTF in comparison to their top-tier iCTF counterparts who have an invested most of their careers into the gametype, and vice versa.

Furthermore, what makes iCTF less challenging and nothing more than a sideshow event/warmup, in comparison to CTF?

CTF players must excel in a variety of areas to be successful. For example most players now days play a variety of roles on the team. It's not uncommon for your flag D in certain circumstances to attack the emenies base (when he has a stack, picked up quad and so on) so when before traditionally your heavy aimmers/dmg dealers would be on D and your more dynamic movement based players would be your flag runners but it todays game teams play a lot more aggressive and its not totally uncommon for your O players to have the most dmg dealt and highest kill ratios. Also communication is key in CTF as your are constantly calling out times and if an enemy is weak or positions. Theres also more advanced tactics in CTF like grabing the flag and running around the enemies base stealing as much items as you can (knowing most likely it won't lead to a CAP) just to weaken them for the next attack or a powerup spawn. Another tactic we see these days in certain circumstances is for teams to get enemies low but not kill them while advancing the flag basically trying to control the spawns.

In iCTF its more about positioning and just general map awareness over anything else. The most advanced strat we see in iCTF is being able to see when you are ahead on spawns (meaning all enemies are killed and spawned in thier base) so you can push in for a 3 man rush. Alswell as knowing when to boost in or out of the enemies base.

Most CTFers struggle with the aimming as its more flick shots over being able to set up and pick your shots/battles. In iCTF since theres no stacks and less of a disadvantage to be killed players are way more aggressive which most CTFers aren't necessarily used to the speed of it and how often you can end up with 3 enemies in your flag room.

I enjoy watching iCTF but it isn't for everyone and most would probably consider a boring. Just the nature of it "point and click" isn't enough to warrant that it finds its way into a major event when $$$ is on the line.

I play CA. Most of the reasons why I enjoy it is already mentioned somewhere in the thread.

What I believe is that with some objective and tweaks to the game-play, it could be THE game-type for the masses viable of competing with anything out there.

Someone mentioned a load-out system for 4v4, where each player has a specific load-out to play, or a weapon to start off with. Basis is good.

The objective might be items, just in a round based system. Think simplified TDM. Some health, armor, weapons here and there, items might not even re-spawn, or be randomized re-spawn to appeal to the masses. Masses don't like to time, they like also RNG (see CS:GO, WOW, mostly everything popular). The items would spawn only after a specific time after the start of the round, like 5-10 seconds, can be randomized. This will alter the player choices of which parts and how much of the map to attempt to control from the round beginning. They are all healthy and with load-out weapons.

Then they just fight until one team runs out of teammates alive, next round starts.

Add maps designed for this and it's a cherry on the pie.

I think that would be tons of fun, yet more competitive and not so brainless. Also not too difficult to grasp.

Why? Because masses don't play CTF and TDM, nor Duel. Too complicated. Nobody cares about some invisible pickup communities.

Wow, it sounds like you really enjoy playing CA. How does it make you feel when you come across players who mock and ridicule you for playing CA instead of CTF, TDM, or Duel?

Enjoy very much would be an over-exaggeration. I play out of habit at this point. I usually play a couple of matches and then get bored of it for the rest of the day, though it can be be fun and sometimes get on nerves. It just happens that most maps played in Clan Arena have decent frames on my old machine, can't say that about other game-types.

Who gives a shit what some arrogant, elitist prick on the forum think? I play what I like. I like the basic nature of CA, screw everyone else for what I care. Fuck all pricks who are unhappy with their life, I don't want to hear them justifying their misery.

All those people saying CA is a gamemode to relax and warmup doesn't seem to actually play it.

Even in random public matches you'll get yelled at and kicked/banned if you don't try hard enough or for unlucky reasons you didn't score much in the first rounds or miss some critical shot or do some mistake later on while being the last men standing and your 3 teammates are just waiting for someting to laugh or rage at.

Then there are the tactical masters (!), spamming "BRIDGE GO BRIDGE GOGOGOGO" and whining hard if not anyone is there 5 seconds before.
If for some reasons you spammed away or got blocked by someone and you can't be there in time, or you get bounced off by enemy fire, "WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU".

If for casual circumstances you end up being the last remaining with a big stack, you'll get kicked because you were camping, or playing solo.

Then comes the hordes of ragequits, and people spamming "spec retard".

And there are people claiming they play CA while listening to music? You get lynched if you fail to pick up the faintest sounds and give the round to the enemy for that. "Turn sound on" is common saying even for deaths unrelated to sounds clues.

You also can't use the match to warmup, since aim is the most important aspect, you need to be in shape from the beginning. If you aren't, prepare to be called noob, tard, etc..

FFA is where it's at for relaxing.
Select your favourite loadout, spam, die to recharge ammos, run around mindlessly without anyone spectating you and criticizing your performance.

Hell, even freeze tag is a more laid back mode than CA.

cg_teamchatonly 1 or just disable chat entirely through a hud file.

“Calling it lunacy makes it easier to explain away the things we don't understand.” - some bitch

yeah, sadly to say i don't think we can ever expect to see iCTF being something in LAN, atleast not for money hence the reason why its not being played as much as some other mods. but thats not really the point here, the point is that iCTF can be as competitive and fun like the other mods such as duel or tdm or even lolca. this game is an example of it, has been played years ago syn vs exp. don't mind the shitty aim)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkcsbPGC2x8

No offense but that was really boring to watch. Very repetitive.

yeah people tend to find it boring to watch, i respect that. just stating my own opinion which is that i find iCTF really fun to play if the skill level is high.

Anything is fun to play competitively and on top level. It's just the competition and drive to win that makes it feel good. Speaking from my own experience.

It is not like tdm and ctf requires a god damn phd in advanced strategy management. All the modes have relative simple objectives, with each their strength and weakness.
Stop comparing publicLOLCA with "Eurocup" tdm/ctf, it will of cause fall short and look stupid.

The thing is that top lvl ca looks even more dull if everyone gathers at one point its just a huge mess every round.

we could also say it's a huge mess in TDM when everybody turns up for quad.
quake is not about structure and organisation.

You can and its true. But quad happens only every 2minutes. The rest of a tdm game usually has a lot do to with 'structure and organisation'.

It sure gets messy, but at the top the players have the awareness to deal with it. Much of it are quick reactions, positional awareness, split second combat decisions. The players who have a higher bar of those skills usually excels even without great accuracies, just basing on the ability that they are able to distinguish these situations in a more efficient manner.

You are absolutely right. It's just that the concept of 6 players meeting up at the most strategically important point of a map every round, is pretty dull, compared to high level tdm, ctf or ictf.

Despite the dull game-play there's an enormous skill gap between the players, no matter how much anyone is going to shame it as a lesser game-type. It just shows that the game-play doesn't have to be deep to challenge the average player out there. The high learning curve is the death of public activity for other game-types. No matchmaking is going to solve that, because players will intuitively stick where they are going to be the most successful with the least amount of effort. Not everyone, but when we are looking at the masses, I believe that holds true.

I will repeat myself, none of the players that play Clan Arena daily give a shit about some invisible pickup communities.

I don't give a fuck about the level heights of mastery achievable in other game-types if there are players who can challenge me in Clan Arena. I think players from other FPS communities have a similar mindset.

The Quake community should realize that the skill-gap achievable in this game doesn't make it special, doesn't make them special, there is no added value for it if the common player out there avoids that kind of a challenge.

So, fuck yeah. I will keep playing Clan Arena and be happy.

I suggest you read what i actually wrote and where this debate started and dont just go into ca-defense-autopilot-mode.

Please, the discussion started with the dull Clan Arena and the strategical TDM. I read all of your posts perfectly on the matter.

And you did not disaggree with anything i said. Still you somehow manage to take it very personal, while mixing up casual ca (which is not subject of this discussion) and top level ca.

Please link your quake live account!

same could be said about a 0 - 0 duel game a low scoring tdm game on dm14 or the 4th overtime in a 0-0 ctf match.

But they are only dull to the untrained eye.


Things are not always what they seem; the first appearance deceives many; the intelligence of a few perceives what has been carefully hidden
- Phaedrus

I think this sums it up perfectly:

Oh, so that's how it was called.

This the best frag movie I've ever seen period

By the way, there is a link to the movie file download, with better FPS and overall quality. :)

http://router.download.maverickservers.com/?f...emoved.avi

The only good thing about lolca is Ulbe.