pls elaborate

"Putin did nothing wrong!!"

damn right, comrade

THEN WHO WAS 777???

Ukraine - big stuff
Isreal and Gaza - not a big deal

Oy vey!

The crash site was instantly contaminated (loads of reporters plus pro-russian rebels) so whatever the outcome there, people will always be able to argue the opposite.


Theoretically if this was a catalyst for something even bigger, which countries would side with Russia?

1st thing is that plane shouldnt be there, the air space over there should be closed long time ago...

underestimate of the problem.

yes, let's blame the victims

not victims, lol

didnt sayt that, air space should be closed by regulations by Ukraine gov. or something.

Now they did it. too late.

For ONZ/ICAO it was 'safe' route, that is underestimate the problem.

Ya I really don't understand why commercial planes were flying there in the first place. There had already been reports of Ukrainian military aircraft being shot down... Surely that was enough.

normally, regional conflicts don't bother civil airplanes, because they fly much too high.

What I said in the other thread:

I love the piece of propaganda where the Ukranians killed a Malaysian plane over their warzone because they thought they could be getting Putin. If Putin managed to get shot down while flying to his continent-sized empire over the single hot warzone he just created, I'd be clapping.

War/non stable situation at your corners isn't best thing in the world, Russia is defending. People DYING, refugees from Ukraine... but Putin is totally evil. LoL.

Russia is defending

Russia is defending

Russia is defending

Russia is defending

On a more serious note, we can discuss all we want, but the 70% of brainwashed Russians who have never seen anything other than propaganda on heavily censored media will not care for our opinions, nor will they even consider that their excuses for Putin don't make sense. I offer no solution for this, the only thing I can say that it's scary to see humans in such a condition in modern times. Not just scary, it's sickening and terrifying.

*shakes son1dow's hand (or whatever it is)*

Tentacle.

people of the west also are brainwashed.

popular media in my country also presenting only "one side"

btw. gg with getting euro rotfl

some, but the levels are not comparable.

mainstream is allways pure bullshit, anywhere.
I think pure bullshit crap in Russian media are easier to recognize than western part ;)

my parents told me that when they lived under communism everybody knows there is a pure bullshit in TV, but not now :D

Also our countries has huge influence of Russia, talking about Poland that want to get back our old lands and shit...
seems that many people belive it.

It's not pure bullshit. Pure bullshit would be something you find in a dystopian book, not even Russia is like that, maybe NK. We get a lot of bullshit, but we're uncomparably better than the Russians at that. Look the differing opinions in your media and then look at the details of political/journalistic persecutions in Russia.


It's natural that we get a lot of Russian influence around here, but it's also natural that people are very fearful of anything Russia does, as a majority still remembers the days of USSR.

I'm not very positive about the west, but if we can defend out constitutional rights, at least we can voice opinions so things get better / don't get much worse.

I heard from Russian that:
- in that plane people were already dead before 'crash' happened - lol undeads?
- Ukraine tried to kill Putin and destroyed wrong plane
- polish battalion of troops landed in Odessa

"not even Russia is like that" ? :D

Have you read, for example, 1984?

O tempora, o mores!

Strelkov feels kinda bummed I guess.

Bummed that they have removed his admission about shooting down a plane?

Yeah the Twitter thing was retarded to the max. Hey Demiurge, where are you?

There are only losers in this conflict. I try not te be biased but i feel Putin has more wickedness up his sleeve than he is displaying. It's hard denying Russians aren't stirring things up in (the) Ukraine. It's always the innocent civilians paying the ultimate price.

Dutch mortality rate risen to 192 confirmed deaths. Just like the Palestinian casualties in Gaza at the moment, it will all be treated as 'collateral damage'. Even if Putin is exposed to be the mastermind behind all the weapon smuggling into the hands of the pro-Russian separatists (or worse, that he sent undercover russian forces), not much will happen apart from some half assed economical sanctions by the EU. Shit's despicable...

Economic sanctions don't just hurt the ruling class of the said country, it hurts the entire russian population who have no say in whats going on.

If it indirectly hurts the Russian population, who re-elected Putin in the first place, i have no problem with that. Voting for a man who was clearly involved in poisoning journalists who criticized him and putting pressure on political opponents shows how brainwashed the majority of the Russians are. On the other hand i can't appreciate the USA's role for immediately pointing the finger at Russia when the bodies aren't even cold. It's like the cold war all over again, and the victims are mere pawns in a political game between the West and the East.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361223

Sorry for my english. ))) I mean "Russia is defending herself".

"Level of propaganda" - ahahahahaha. Only russians is stupid, but not you, for sure. Propaganda is still problem, anyway. But tragedy in Odessa and attack on Boeng 777 is something... Blind gnomes is so blind. LoL.

Russia is defending herself

Russia is defending herself

Nuke Putin & co pls

drone strike will do, not quite as messy

Blue eyed elves on drones. LoL.

Although it took too much time for some stupid reason, the repatriation of the people who have died was really impressive.
To see so many people showing their grief and compassion openly, to support those who have lost their beloved, no matter what nationality, made me (and my girlfriend) literally cry.
Which was quite awkward, we hadn’t experienced this before, looking at each other with tears our eyes. But it was cool, in some sort of way.
You know, this widely spread compassion was like one of those 'feel good moments' proving there's a huge amount of people with the best of intentions.
Beautiful, albeit a diamond on a pitch black background.
No one can convince me that it has ever been the intention of any nation or group of separatists or whatever to deliberately blow a commercial jet out of our blue sky.
Although I’ve not lost any close relatives, I knew one young girl who has died there .
Nonetheless, in my opinion it is very wrong to blame anyone, at least at this point.
Ok, it seems like the Russians have been providing the weaponry to the separatists, but did they do so with this intention?
On this ground, many nations and companies are to blame, because many countries do develop and deliver parts of those very missiles. Amongst them are the Netherlands.
So who is to blame really?
Everyone is pointing fingers at Russia. But indirectly, many are to blame.
It's not all black and white, it's always a shade of grey.
Lessons are to be learned once again, but a long history of warfare shows us that many folks are not giving a shit about learning lessons. They do however give a shit about money and power.
It’s a nasty habit from those who crave money and power to work their asses up to positions where they find what they seek.
Let’s hope those ‘big dudes’ discover Quakelive to blow off some Steam ;-), instead of playing with real humans’ lives.
Bah!

tldr;

Don't blame Russia beforehand, they have a lot of firepower.

On this ground, many nations and companies are to blame, because many countries do develop and deliver parts of those very missiles. Amongst them are the Netherlands.

There's a difference between producing armament and actually supplying the rebels with the said armament.

The rebels certainly did not know it was a commercial airliner - they apparently thought it was a Ukrainian military transport plane. It doesn't change the fact that they're scum, illegally attempting to seize part of a country by force and shooting at the legitimate authorities and at civilians.

sure there are people who are directly responsible for that tragedy:
1. Those who did not close airspace above the warfare location where military planes were already destroyed (I mean current Ukrainian authorities who are in charge for this).
2. Whoever outside of Ukrain made a rout for this plane through warfare region. And again I stress the fact that it is already more then MONTH war going on there. Sure people who did not change the route to avoid dangerous region (which is not big at all) should be punished.
3. People who gave the order to shoot. But those I think will be never revealed unfortunately.

P.S. I hope investigation will show us all those ppl and they will be punished according to their guiltiness.