#freezhu is the answer

the genre is currently becoming stale, fleshed out, and no true to successor to quake/tribes/ut/ or whatever game you hold dear to your heart would change that.

now i'm not suggesting that the same thing won't happen to the dota map games in a few years, or perhaps in the next decade or so, eventually it will lose it's appeal and something new will come to take it's place.

this isn't something you can fight against, and i'm tired of people arguing for a true successor to their favorite game that has x amount of features, perfect performance and online handling, would somehow attract millions of people to the game.

FPS will return from the fringes at some point, the same thing was said about starcraft outside of korea and it still got a massive amount of new players and spectators interested.

When a company decides to give their FPS game the same treatment that dota2,LoL,sc2 etc have gotten you will see things getting better.

Things started getting better in CSGO and all of a sudden there is a huge surge of interest as a result, why no one can see something similar happen to arena FPS:es is just proof how jaded people have become.

When a company decides to give their FPS game the same treatment that dota2,LoL,sc2 etc have gotten you will see things getting better.

like when shootmania was publicized?

It tried to do to many new things. The 3v1 game mode used in comps was terrible.

The movement was also an a abortion, harder to under stand and making less sense than quake movement, which is saying a lot.

Also it included instagib, which is a mistake. Insta draws players off the real game. Ca is bad enough. For this type of fps they need to offer some old things that work (duel, tdm, CTF) and one new polished mode.

Sm should be held up as example of what not to do.

Unfortunately I doubt any studio has it in them to do q3 or ut in this day and age. Look at how much content those games shipped with, pretty amazing really.

Please explain cause i fail to see the correlation with shootmania and what i said..

can you elaborate what treatment lol, dota2, sc2 have received?

Presenting a complete package with all the social aspects, matchmaking,ladder etc.
The money would be a great addition aswell.

ps. I know that shootmania has matchmaking now, it doesnt make up for the game being itself being completely lackluster.

now keep that and all the money spent on publicizing and legitimizing shootmania in mind, and then read my comment as a joke.

The FPS Community is dieing because we are letting it die.

All were doing is playing the game, not alot of us (95%) are contributing the time for the community to get people to start playing games like Quake.

Seriously guys, if we all contributed and got at least a friend a week on these games there is still hope that QL can get sponsors and we can keep this game alive.

no, you really can't.

quake live as a service has never had a problem with exposure, since it was in closed beta it has had countless articles written on the front pages of sites like ign, kotaku, gamespot, destructoid etc.

ignoring that, just think of the audiences in all of the lan events over the years, you know those guys that where sitting down and watching the games as they were happening. i doubt anyone can think of a better way to bring more exposure to quake live, than what the actual lan tournaments for quake live brought.

if they didn't have an interest in registering an account and playing quake live, then i doubt you will ever find the hordes of fresh meat that will bring this much needed resurgence in the scene.

It was long time since someone proposed something good in terms of FPS games. TF2 is quite nice for day2day shooting just for kicks. CS GO is very good. Apart from that - no one has balls/brains in industry to propose something new.

New games are "safe" - this is generic - look at COD or BF4. Nothing new, since old sells well. Maybe Cliff Bleszinski's game will be a breakthrough. Maybe.

"Maybe Cliff Bleszinski's game will be a breakthrough. Maybe."

The guy who gave you triple rocket launcher and UT2K4 movement?
I'm sure he's a good designer across the board but that would not cut it when it comes to bettering quake.

That's what I was talking about. According to Quakers - the only way to make FPS games is to make Quake over and over again.

i like you.

I didn't say that at all.
I was simply pointing out that...

A) Quake is at the top of the food chain when it comes to FPS (fuck sales most gamers these days are not purisits).
B) The previous games he's worked on have had some not very good aspects about them in key areas.

There was nothing breakthrough about unreal MP, it was always in quakes shadow despite it being a respectable game.

The bottom line is movement mechanics and weapons are two key factors in what most people would consider a breakthrough FPS game, me mentioning that does not mean I want to remake quake, but certain things have to go in by default for it to be breakthrough-otherwise its not breakthrough.

I have not played quake properly in over 6 years, I too am bored of it, but it doesn't mean I want to dump the best elements of it.

UT was never in the shadows of Quake. They both were on the front line of high skilled FPS and both had something different to offer.

Between the both quake is easily the best game suited for duel games due to movement and armor system. Still, the UT duel scene was pretty decent and had some really high skilled players.

TDM and especially CTF UT flourished. At the peek of both games UT probably had the larger competitive playerbase.

Quake was the more prestigious. look at all the character it spawned?
Even this site was built on the backbone of quake.

Both games were pretty much on the same level of prestige in their prime. Each game has a really high skill ceiling and support by a lot big online and lan tournaments.

I’m not even sure what you mean by “all the character it spawned”.

You're just wrong when you compare the glamour of quake to UT.
Quake had way more money, way more pedigree, competition.

I could count over a million dollars for quake games in prize money easy inside the last 10 years.

Its much easier to be seen as a pro in UT than in quake.

I'm afraid that I have to inform that it's you who is wrong. I give both games and the players who played them the credit they deserve.

You however sound like a bitter fanboy.

You don't even have an account here.

I'm not a fan boy, I just know the diff between butter and margarine, so do you, you just dont like the fact that the game you played isn't as high end as quake so you're trying to split them to appear neutral so you can delude yourself into thinking your scene was on the same level when anyone worth a shit knows it wasn't.

Why are you hiding behind an anon alias?

You are still wrong and you still sound rather hostile.

I already said Quake is the better game when it comes to duels due to its mechanics. UT on the other hand was the better game for TDM and CTF. Even though the UT duel scene was pretty good at its top just like TDM and CTF is pretty decent in quake as well.

Different games with different mechanics that each favor certain game styles a bit better than the other.

I'm sorry if you never managed to be good at shock combos.

Sorry if you're such scrub you never reg'd an account on ESR.
I can tell you must really know your stuff or you believe in those words of yours.

No way did UT have a bigger TDM scene and no way was its better for TDM, CTF maybe but not TDM(q2ctf was better than both)

Clearly UT player to even consider that it was at the same level of Quake, ever. Jamerio is right, as hard as that is to swallow.

so basiclly UT was worse than Quake because movement wasnt a fucking game engine bug? a bug that main programmer tried to eliminate?

how awesome quake movement is!

It started as bug but was evolved as conscious mechanic long before UT even existed.

mechanics is something intended.

the bug wasnt removed in qw because the fix would break the physics. and some liked it. bug existing in a source code for nearly 20 years.


fun additional fuct: the only quake game that decided to remove it, was bashed by community. even if it had much better movement system.

I'm talking about modern quake. even before UT came out quake 3 had intended movement physics, that is all.

lets compare quake and ut movement:

quake - strafe jumping aka bug in game engine. sometimes mixed with aircontrol and some other mechanics resulting in more fluid movement. but still bug based.

ut - intended and usefull in combat.

there's nothing wrong with bugs and unintended features becoming fully fledged gameplay mechanics.

2D fighting games built themselves on these ever since SF2. crossups and combos were unintended.

Strafe jumping IS NOT a bug in the engine. it might have been initially but its well intended now and has been for a long time. They even added to in quake 4.
No way you're going to get anywhere around here by somehow implying the UT movement is superior.

I like in UT when I retard-dash into oblivion : )))) Best movement ever.

bug-movement. i belive using such bugs in other games is called cheating. but quake was always special, not always in a positive way.

and i never implied UT movement is superior. that one more of your delusions. its just different.

lol

god, even jamerio understands articles he links. and i was sure noone can beat ja ja at being dumb.


not using a possibility made by game makers, because its lame is stupid. but using exploits is forbiden in many competitive games, because fuck you - its cheating.


as i said: carmac did want to remove it, but he couldnt think off a fast fix that wouldnt change the physics too much. and bam - ppl liked it, because they could cheat their way to the win. nothing new.

A feature is a feature. Calling using an unintended feature cheating is the exact same thing as calling any other feature cheap -- I figured the great hitsu would be smart enough to understand that. You're superimposing a set of rules on a game. The game itself offers nothing but what is possible and what isn't; those are the real rules.

Also before you start talking about exploits in competitive games in general, read the rest of the book.

A feature is a feature.

The game itself offers nothing but what is possible and what isn't; those are the real rules.

so if the game is hackable, why not do it in order to win? ur explanation is weak and stupid, but thats something i was expecting.




ow and i glimpsed through this book, the autor is a fucking moron, who contradicts himself every page.

You must go to AGDQ.
Run there naked and scream "C H E A T E R S M O T H E R F U C K E R S!"

wtf is agdq?

Event full of cheating speedruners.

well gl to them.

cheater vs cheater is fair ?:D

Good question!

so if the game is hackable, why not do it in order to win?

Last time I checked, most games don't ship with hacks included. Hacking is literally adding something to the game to give yourself an advantage over others. Using an exploit is playing the game as it is. Anyway, I've had this discussion many times. In my experience, the loudest scrubs will never understand any of it, so I'm done here.

In my experience, the loudest scrubs will never understand any of it, so I'm done here.

or u lack arguments, which is more likely, considering how stupid and weak your explanation is.

by your definition using gamer mouses is cheating, because they dont add them to the game. its external help, giving you advantage over other players. rings a bell?

..........because games don't come with input handling for mice.........

irrevalant post, result of you being dumb.

Hacking is literally adding something to the game to give yourself an advantage over others.

external devices which have influence on your game. mouse fits perfectly into your definition.

Jesus christ, look up dunning-kruger boy. Anyway, a pc game as it is -- meaning without modifying anything as you would with hacking -- offers the possibility of using a mouse for input. Does the game itself have to be changed to use a better mouse? No, therefore it's not remotely similar to hacking. Again, I did not expect having to explain this to someone of your superior intelligence.

so mouse input is ok, but backdoors allowing for hacks are not?

typical esr lack of logic

Indeed.

UT was released 10 days before Quake 3 did...

"conscious mechanic"

This is not Skynet.

but did ut have bots with dynamic ai that eventually learned that the best strategy for staying alive is to stop fighting each other?

I would not be the least bit surprised. I always suspected those bots of foul play.

Yeah, on maps that had jump-pads and slightly defective waypoints.* They lived happily ever after.

*not even kidding, they would put themselves into unending loops of jumping on a pad and re-centering on said pad mid-air endlessly

I lol'd

your on a quake associated website, so its normal that ppl here defend quake. im feeling good that UT & Quake players arent enemys anymore, like in the past.

o.O

....


Won't even entertain the idea of actually participating in this.

Triple rockets = fun. In UT99 you could load up to 6 rockets but it was slow and cumbersome. Actually the most fun things about UT was the dual weapon firing options, and the translocator.

IMO, if you're going to say weapons are one of the defining factors for a good FPS game, UT beats Quake in that respect. Also, I wish Quake had headshots.

Go watch a high level duel on dm6 in unrealX and watch the same map in quake. I doubt the same would be true if you put an unreal map in quake.

The two games are beyond compare.

So? The Edge doesn't play the same in QL as it does in Q2 either.

The edge isn't a good example, that map never worked well in quake 3 or 4 duels either.

Like I said get a map like DM6 or ZTN going, something with some flow to it and you'll see how the movement and precision of quake comes into its own.

That's exactly my point. Have you seen ztn or dm6 played in Q2 or Q4? they play quite differently too. I don't think deck 16 or facing worlds would be so fun in Quake either. But I wasn't talking about movement, because comparing Quake and UT movement is like comparing apples and oranges. I was only talking about weapons and how much I personally enjoy the UT aresenal compared to Quakes.

You mentioned weapons as a benchmark of a breakthrough FPS. As someone who has invested many hours playing both games (amongst other FPS too), the UT weapon system will always be my favourite and I haven't played another FPS game with such a verstile array to choose from, not to mention the skill needed to fully utilize their power.

Of course I find Quake really fun too, and tbh I prefer Quake duels over UT but as I see some have argued with you already, both games have their merits.

Anyway this thread isn't about Quake vs UT, I just wanted to reminisce a little about how fun the UT weapons were, so people don't forget :) we shouldn't let moba games totally take over, there is also room for FPS in tournaments. Kids just need to realize how fun and rewarding it is to play something that you can't immediately win at.

Yea and the edge shows Q3/QL lack of movement flow compared to Q2

completely agreed. weapons are really fun and the best part about UT.

Quake is more about fluid and precise movement. weapons, while feeling very solid from a purist POV, are nothing to write about.

i'd really love a crossover Quake vs UT game (like Capcom vs SNK :D)

iconic maps from both franchises, two classes - one from each series with their own weapon/powerup sets and movement mechanics. Quake and UT clevery combined would create greater buzz than on their own.

Haha that would be fun :) but yeah, definitely needs to be well executed. I thought UT3 would be a fun combo of UT99 and UT2k4 but I was so wrong ;(

of all quake games, quakeworld is the only game that is still unique enoguh to still be playable.

q3 too, imho ql is too much like modrn shooters, they reemoved all unique satanic art, made it into another moba-like watered down shit. no blood no pentagrams, colored lighting became white light. it became uninteresting from hardcore gamer standpoint. they watered it down for mass appeal. and then lost all quakers.

the game lacks that warm feel of q3. most graphics became watered down.

i definitely dislike the texture set used in most new maps. they diluted the cyber punk/goth feeling of the game.

yeah, tehe textures feel tucked on for the most part, since everyone picmips everything away anyways. they should have made tf2/warsow style washed out textures, but they have to stick to legacy textures of q3. so they do useless work, since you cant have bump mapping there, compensating with textures details, doesnt look all that good without shiny bumpy surfaces. and thematically just looks very odd, its like halo but there is no idea where it all happens, some maps are so stylistaccaly different there is no way to tell if its the same game, it breaks the continuity with the overall style of the game. the engine shows a lot of flaws, its looks like a box map with very detailed textures, not believable at all. its sort of detailed in the wrong ways, like console shooter where a gemoetry layout is primitive where it feels like a box and then there is siome bs textures to make it look like a real map.

Multiple rockets are OK from a balance perspective. One rocket was pretty weak, two were probably on par with one quake ticket and three was more, with the caveat that you could hear them loading past the first rocket.

Not defending ut, 2k3 or 4 because all of them have serious flaws, however the rl was one of the better implemented and balanced features. Look towards super fast switch + two hitscan (lg+shock primary), the retardism that is the shield gun, the armor system, duel with quad or the movement bugs for true "design" problems.

I remember the guy wrote an article for fetid sewers in ut99 era - about strat and how he designed it to play. Who cares, it was a shit map no one played and the community figured that out quickly.

I don't think cliffyb can make something to save fps, he will be too busy trying to reinvent the wheel and justify it.

moba's allow for better social interaction than any other game genre. thus its succesfull.


fps are doomed, especially twitch schooters, because any new game wont be q3.

I would love to see some new FPS in the spirit of quake, but not quake inspired - this is focused on movement, aiming, projectile - not only hitscan - weapons, etc.

With shiny graphics, social features and shit.

But apparently no one has brains atm how to do it. Look at shottmania's interpretation of fast fps games. It was like Windows8 of FPS games.

FPS is fucked because people would rather play it on a console instead of a PC.

They need to make quake5 and really push the competitive aspect, similar to what blizzard did with SC2. Include good match making and social features, basically what people on this site have been saying for years

SC2 ded geme

good

You know the FPS genre is the biggest of them all in videogames, right?

The first thing about the matter at all times is to distinguish between games in general (100%), of e-sports (0.01%). Also in the former consoles are of the essence, not in the latter..

Where I want to go here is that quake in particular being unpopular on both matters is not the market's, moba's or 'gamer's' fault. It had everything to succeed. At the same time, CS:GO is doing quite well as an e-sport, now back at the most popular steam game place it had for years, back to major events and with tons of viewers, all without a console release (for those that dislike that)..

First post of 2014. Happy new year!

yes, its called fragrr.

http://www.fragrr.com/

and apparently it's dead2k.

CS:GO getting bigger bitches!

because all the games suck and everyone cries when there is a new map to play

team games will be 32 Vs 32 on battlefield

CSGO is growing...

What's more boring than boring? That is MOBA to me. I have no idea why that shit is prospering.

On the other hand, I think I'm finished holding onto hope for a competitive FPS title. Titanfall is going to be my next game and it certainly won't be competitive, but it looks fun, which is the ultimate factor. That's more than I can say for the other console FPS trash, or any FPS games released over the last few years.

the appstore kids are moving up to play moba games. just when we thought cs was crap industry comes up with even shitier games just to milk some money

never will be a competitive fps

pro's can adapt to changes

pro's arnt crackheads who can only and will play the same map for 13 years

wait wut?

why would sponsers want to give a piss boring bunch of cry babies a rockstar tournament that never changes from year to year

Ask that at a Go forum (that game hasn't changed in 4,000 years).

There's something about perfecting gameplay based on a few simple, unchanging rules that just appeals to (some) people.

Two completely different audiences if you ask me. Also lulz at SCII being a "MOBA" xD.

moba, rts, whats the difference? :)

After having played all three (FPS, RTS, MOBA) I'd say there's a pretty big one.

It's not that the FPS scene is dead, it's just that...the masses prefer tactical, realistic shooters over arena type shooters.

The popularity of Counter-strike over quake says it all then cod took over then the rest is history.

cod did not take over, cs is still quite big.

Quake isn't succeeding in the online environment these days because of how poorly it competes with games that cater better to casual gamers. You all know that.
Quake and other modern 'competitive' FPS games enjoyed their day in the sun in the early 2000s because they had no competitors, RTS games were stale in comparison, and aside from the few pros who'd been playing since QW, the vast majority of players were casuals who could easily find fair and balanced games competing against eachother.
As time goes by there's always going to be a certain percentage who move on to newer titles to enjoy the same experience of 'something new', and an environment where they can share that same experience with others in a casually competitive way... of course there's always a certain percentage that get hooked and stay for years... but it's only natural that a game's popularity will dwindle as time goes on...
... and think about it, the majority of casual players have no interest in learning complicated movement systems, a game that takes years to enjoy a high level of success on, or just plain aren't skilled or patient enough to reap any benefit from... not to mention playing a game that simply doesn't look good ( ala every skilled player's config. ) in comparison with other titles.
Quake Live has very little in the way of immersion to offer gamers too, don't forget that. In fact, practically none. Even it's competitors offer some fixed lower bound of environment in the game so that it doesn't get robbed of personality.
All that being said, TF2's success is a sign that there is potential within the genre, even though it's a shit, plebed out game with graphics made for idiots and children... It's still amazingly successful for an FPS.
All these points upset me too, and there is still hope, but you just have to accept that Quake just does not appeal to the majority of gamers anymore, especially when you consider that there are:

a) Better looking games ( TF2)
b) Easier games ( LoL / CoD )
c) Games where the bridging between casual->competitive is easier ( dota )
d) Games where the overall mechanics are more intuitive, and the setting makes more sense ( CS:GO )

Bla bla bla, it makes me sad too... but until there's a major overhaul, ie. QL2.0, or Quake5, we're just going to have to deal with the slow trickle of new players that we have.

PLease, can people stop heralding the end of Quake, the end of FPS, the end of good gaming. If it's good it'll stay!

This. Not a week goes by without some meathead preaching about the dwindling popularity of limited appeal niche genre, (supposed) id's inability to understand markets, the lack of community locomotion or whatever aging graphics of quake live. Only commodities we are abundant are pseudo-wisdom, naiivity and harsh criticism.

Totally agreed. The only thing missing in the community is:

a) Positivity and belief;
b) Pro-activity and determination

To anyone reading this: if you think there isn't enough happening in the QL scene, then for God's sake do something about it, rather than repetitively moaning about it as if Quake is blatantly doomed and beyond all hope!

Dude, give up. The person below you clearly can't read, or doesn't give a shit.

I rarely argue with myself... I like your form!
Who needs Jamerio+Lethe when we just have earth_quake hehe.

"wait...do I ever talk to myself? I don't think so...no, never."

haha ty, I'm a two-for-the-price-of-one package :)

Sorry to tell you but FPS died already, back in 2004 with a thing called WoW

How did this happen?
1) Quake became a hardcore game.
Look at Wot (they say that it is cybersport. ahhahhaha) But it is more popular: easier to play, more players in 1 team, easier to understand.
2) Quake is not have a properly support.
Look at WoT again, they improve graphics, they teach players how to play, they make a some kind of tvshow where they glorify good players and tell what is new, there are no split between q2 qw q3 cpm and q4 players.They have a good monetization system, so they have money to do such support for their game.

"good monetization system"? Holy shit.
WoT is piece of random pew pew where every tank feels like the worst shit possible. Just to make you feel like playing more to unlock "better" tanks. But they are not better. And when you climb high enough you won't be able to play these high tier tanks just because they cost more then you can earn with them. So hey! You can buy premium or whatever. More exp so there is less farming! More cash so you can play in a way you'd like! But even then every problem that this game has, is still there. This game exists only to lure poor kids or older ones who likes tanks and make them pay for everything. Gotta go fast because at the end of the day no one will play this abomination.

wtf is moba?

hmm, I'm not sure actually.

Dota2 is a fucking great game, don't knock what you don't know. Huge depth, lots of interactions to learn, requires quick thinking and reflexes and is very rewarding (or punishing). Almost all the heroes are really fun aswell - my favourite - invoker, requires a fair bit of mechanical skill but he's just awesome.

Mobas have a lot of the qualities that you so admire in quake - very simple on the surface, but extremely difficult to master.

I'd love to play a good new fps, but honestly, quake likes are about as boring and stale as imaginable, and no one seems to have the creativity required to bring something new to the table. But when you see the existing audience's attitude, you can't blame them.

I don't want to make a long or indepth post but, the death or failings of any game or genre of games has nothing to do with the success of others. People play good games. There are a lot of people who love all kinds of games too, more than enough. FPS is not only one of the oldest and simplest genres, it's also incredibly hard to achieve a duality of great competitive and casual value. The only reason FPS/Arcade-like competitive shooters aren't in the spotlight is because there aren't any good ones with good funding and marketing. There have been a lot of successful titles though to be fair, but they are all casual titles etc.

edit: So what I'm saying is, enough of the "x game is killing x game". :)

actually, people play games that have good marketing, its not necessary to be a good product.

a sign of times we live in.

True true

Good marketing would a plus, but when it comes to quakelive that isnt the problem.
If QL would even retain 10% of the amount of people who have even tried the game it would arguably be bigger then sc2.

In my opinion QL lives or dies by its communty solutions (lack of matchmaking, ladder etc..)
Lets faceit (pun intended) what other game then COD and CSGO has these solutions built in and fleshed out?

None

im getting really sick of this matchmaking bullcrap

Any reasons why or are you just going to sit there and write short ill-tempered responses with no substance to them whatsoever?

1. skillmatching in fps doesnt exist, because of execution element which may vary depending on the day.

2. ql has skill matching. however, if you divide 100 and 1000 into 10 exactly the same pieces, the pieces of 1000 will be bigger, making it easier to find a pair for you.

so basiclly, what are you proposing is nonsense loop : no players because of lack of proper skill matching, which is result of lack of players. no matter how precise your system would be, it wont fix the current state of ql.

ow, and you're dumb.

Well using that logic skillmatching doesnt exist at all.

I never said matchmaking would instantly fix ql in its state, it would go a long way to help it recover though.
Say if proper matchmaking was implemented from the start i would guarantee that you would see alot more people playing today.

Also why do you assume that the possible algorithm wouldnt address the issue of a dwindled playerbase?

Im also curious is to why everytime someone wants anything more then "meh fuck you" as an answer they have to goad you into it.

thats all matter of semantics. if by skill matched we understand close game, then no, theres no skill matching in ql.

however if we try to compare potential result of game: yes, skill matching in quake works. lets not forget one mistake in quake game can lead to either nothing significant, OR total destruction of your opponent.

such algorithm would have to make either more paritions, in result forcing you to play either closest weaker or stronger player, or less partitions which ends in current 5 tier system of ql. obviously you could alter it by adding random elements like: streak, or result against particular player, but its random.

for the last part of your post: im kind enough not to think about majority of ppl around me as morons. i do hope most of users here are able to follow basic laws of logic, and make proper, logic conclusions of their own. an idea that seems to be totally untrue.

Did you even understand my question?

which one. there were many

Everything is a cycle.

Fiber in most homes and it will make a comeback
Playing fps is pointless if your connection isn't perfect
Mobas don't have such heavy requirements and that's one reason why they're so popular

Consoles, mobile computing, and poor Internet infrastructures are what really killed the pc fps genre.
You guys are so clueless

Gaming no-longer being a niche/nerd thing is what killed it. Companies want max profit, so they sell to the casuals.

I think you are both right
So, to overcome the critical mass of players, we need huge amount of new players. Where we can get it?
To reach this amount of new players game at least must be more casual or be playable on consoles, tablets and phones.
1) So it means new models, effects, sounds or/and android, ios, xbox, and ps support.
2) New NFK like game, or something like this.
3) Some not quake like game

Truly competitive, high skill games can not be played on a console, unless racing based.

It's essentially paradoxical.

You can play it on console or phone for fun (ffa instagib). Maybe someone try it on console and move to pc to kick ass. And offcourse we need good matchmaking system for it.
Some people like to play halo, cod, battlefield,GoW on joystick and some people like to play shadowgun on tablet)

*cough* fighting games *cough*

Fair enough. Throw in Classic Arcade too.

Accelerometer = horrible precision

You know that steam controller better then ps4/xbox controller for fps games because it have a touchpad so you can move your finger like a mouse. And lot of fps games on console and on phone do not support acceleration. Its a big fail, cause it is increase your aim

The controller is only part of the problem.

There wasa video of a dude playing ql with a controller, his aim was quite decent compared to a lot of console footage I have seen.

He seemed to have something that changed the behaviour of the thumbsticks slightly, and my take away (his english was not great and everything was not explained very well on his site/youtube channel) is that the consoles limit how you aim and it could be a lot better/require more skill, yet they choose to do it that way, probably to make the barrier to entry lower.

This is not defending controllers because, imo, they are restrictive, just to point out the current implemetation is probably not ideal. If what teh guy reckons is correct then fixing this would go a long way to solving the problem.

I am sure someone else can post links, I cannot remember his name.

Gen1us

http://www.youtube.com/user/GenN1us
http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/gen1us

and his quake live + gamepad playlist which shows him playing with it as proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V7dwr0FdWU&am...ndf0EwHacZ

That guy - he does a terrible job of explaining what he is about, especially when he seems to have some sort of software he wants to sell that makes controller input better.

Cool guy. It is not fake 100%.
I made a test to comare xbox controller and keyboard+touchpad. On xbox controller i cant win xaero 5 on dm1, score 4:20. On keyboard+touchpad score is 20:10, i win.
I must say that on ztn i win both because of stack.
And another thing i must say that i am playing on controller so rarely, i am never had xbox or ps so my controller experience is zero.
What is good on xbox controller is movement. One finger = 3 or 4 fingers on keyboard, and you can do fast forward-back moves.
What is good on touchpad is aim because you can move your finger like a mouse.
I am testing it on 9.5 inch screen(19" viewsize 50) so it looks like ipad, now i want to repeat test with fullscreen.

The point was controller input for FPS could be better than it is on consoles (and I assume PC as well) with a better implementation.

What you score against xaero or your opinion of current controller input hardly matters.

I do agree with you however, that the steambox touchpad controller is a step in the right direction - however it would be nice if it had buttons on one side.