welcome to the QL netcode. that's what client-side hit detection gets you, but try to tell anyone about warping and they call you crazy.

Surely you mean server-side?

no its client side. q3 was server side.

No. Both are server-side. QL has lag compensation to make it feel like client side but it's server side.

well... it feels like shit.

By the way, client-side hit detection would actually feel awesome for your own shots, not bad. Because in such a system, it's your client which decides if you hit or not : shoot-through and the such wouldn't happen at all. The downside is that dodging would feel terrible and you'd get hit around walls much more than now. Oh, that and it would make it much easier for kiddies to write dumb hacks. I played a game called "Warrock" a few years ago and I'm pretty sure almost everything was client-side since hackers could just kill everyone on the map with grenades constantly (basically telling the server "I killed player X with a grenade" even though he threw no grenades and stuff like flying and sniping in the sky, etc.).

apparently DayZ had or still has that problem. Seen streams where people are all just teleported in one spot or people dropping items/objects that aren't supposed to be in the game. heh

Yeah. Lots of modern games are like that. It's just the easiest way to code things.

It's not just DayZ, but Arma 2 in general. Hackers are abundant on public servers. It's just the way Arma was written, and with the popularity of DayZ came a mass amount of script kiddies that can kill every single player on the server at the drop of a hat. It's sad really.

This won't be possible in the standalone version of DayZ.

sounds like ql.

Considering you never played q3 let alone instaunlagged or x-battle I don't really think you know how unlagged "feels"

How should I interpret that? That you believe QL has client-side hit detection and we've been fed lies?

no im saying you don't know how it feels.

Ok. I get that. What I don't get is why you're saying that. I'm afraid my feelings won't change how the game is coded, which is the point of the discussion here I think.

If you get it why are you still on about it?

Because I wonder why you go spouting irrelevant stuff.

Btw, I enjoy walking in the woods with snowshoes.

You having no basis for comparison between q3 and ql .... I don't see how that's irrelevant.

I never compared Q3 to QL. So yeah, that's irrelevant.

you're wrong, plain and simple. as someone who actually had the misfortune to play games/mods with client side hit detection... it does not feel awesome at all, trust me :/

Theoretically, there's no reason for client side hit detection to feel bad when you shoot. In the sense that if you hit the target on your screen, you are sure you hit it. Of course that doesn't mean the overall feeling is good, that's not what I meant : the downsides are terrible indeed. Let's not forget too that other systems can screw things up anyway. There could still be shoot-through if it was coded like shit, but that would not be client side detection's fault.

Theoretically, there's no reason for client side hit detection to feel bad when you shoot.

fuck you.

you have no idea what you are talking about. no one gives a fuck about your "theoretical" opinion when there are people in this thread who actually know what they are talking about. mods with client side hit detection are among the weirdest (and worst) experiences i had when playing quake.

/e: besides, there are a number of technical reasons why client side hit detection will end up being endlessly weird until we can (almost) get rid of latency altogether (which is the point where we don't need client side hit detection anymore anyway).

Oh, look, a mad person. I too played such games (albeit no Q3 mods) and noticed how it sucks for various reasons. Of course if you don't care about theory and only take account of practice with potential flawed side-systems, even the little it's supposed to do well will do bad for you. But that's a very narrow minded view and I see there's no point discussing with you. Have a good day, Mr. Mad.

zeal·ot - a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

hope you're not talking about timenudge.
rail reacts like unlagged even over 150 ping.
you don't have to lead your shots.

I hope you're exaggerating with your "over 150 ping" cause that's simply wrong.
Timenudge has nothing to do with hit detection. All it does is display sooner the information you received from the server instead of smoothing it out with what was previously known (which can make the other players skippy).
You don't have to lead your shots in normal pings because the server will look in its previous game states if the enemy was, in the past, where you shot. On VQ3, it just looked its current game state so you had to anticipate where the opponent would be when your message would reach the server.

Precision : official word is that it's unlagged up to 80 ms.

i'm not exaggerating.

Not sure if trolling, or just stupid.

Posting in a G.I. Jonesy thread.

Why do I never get 100% LG'd around corners then? I play on t4 servers. Maybe it's just North America?

Yeah, warpers exist, but it's usually me not being able to hit them, not them hitting 100% on me anywhere around the map. If they hit 100% then you don't move at all. Or you went up a jumppad or something. Can't possibly imagine other way.

I, too, get frustrated about warpers sometimes, but they never hit unsual amounts on me, they just warp-dodge everything I fire. And when I lag/warp, it's the same, I can't hit jack shit, so it's not so heavenly to warp.

Warping with stable ping is possible though

i don't mean lging around the corner in the sense that i can't see the player. these guys are popping out from around corners and dealing insane amounts of damage. when i watch the demo the accuracy is awful, but in game it's as though all of the damage from a great span of time is funneled through a few moments.

and i'm not frustrated.

i don't think this behavior is restricted to when people are warping, btw. there are people who seem to have stable connections and move [smoothly], but i still watch my rails go through them and witness myself pinned with lg while focused solely on dodging, and later in demos see their horrible accuracy and my rail shots noticeably off. something is wrong, and whatever it is breaks the game.

sometimes the player's movement is smooth as long as they are in my view, but the moment they're behind a wall and move into my view again, the skip across the screen for a few moments while damaging me.

my movement up jump pads is even sometimes glitchy, to where i'm 3/4 up the jump and my model position resets to where i'm bouncing from the jump pad again.

there are times when a game starts and my model bursts from the spawn point, sending me in some odd direction, sometimes over edges.

i enjoy ql for a lot of reasons, but a big one is the idea of developing skills to maintain control of games, but these things only show me that the perception of control is very often false, and after 6 months back in the game (from quitting a while back for the same reasons), with a new mindset that if this is a universal problem then it's possible to play without being frustrated, i can see it's possible to play without being frustrated, but it's just not fun.

Maybe your internet connection suffers from packet loss?

... i call this BS or op didnt state his opinion correctly.

Read right to me.

QQ

i hope this doesn't seem like complaining or whining. my only intent is to show that there are some issues that break the game for me (and i know for others, through various conversations and posts), and that the issues determine whether or not i pay for & play the game.

The real problem, what really broke this game, is the absurd amount of cheaters around, and the consolidated opinion of those peoples that it's perfectly legit to use at least wallhacks, since so many peoples are using it, because "clan is using it, i cannot refuse", because "it's not a game like cod", because wallhacks "increases the fun", etc..
As it is now, the situation is unbearable, you are forced to change the playstyle because things that have always been useful skills like hidind behind corners, etc., are now useless, it's ridicolous and it's really destroying the game, for anyone not using cheats.
The netcode can be a problem, but it isn't much different from how it was back in the days, pings up to 40 are preferable to the ones higher, only that now it affects different weapons in different ways, and there are peoples intentionally abusing it; but it's still relatively rare, at least in my online experience, and it's nothing compared to peoples that uses any kind of shits like wallies, umanized aimbots, timers, or those lame elo abusers, win joiners, team stackers etc..

replying to a nex1 (TM) post

Yeah, a shitton of cheaters. Never met one in 4 years.

ditto

maybe we need a LAN scene in quake ;-)

lata~

No I feel exactly the same, like the game cheats me of my long honed Q3 skills by making it all look the same, but work quite different. The constant changes form beta to full weren't helping either, I enjoyed QL quite a lot in the early days, when the unlagged netcode wasn't as pronounced.

Shaft, rail and mg are the main problems, they just seem so broken.

I have games whee I *certainly know* I was not even close with my crosshair, still the craziest rails would register. For some people this equals fun, when they cannot miss for some reason, for me it is irritating and weird and not rewarding at all.

In general it is like you have to predict half a second before anything will happen and act in foresight. If you dodge on sight, you get hit no matter what. It is an entirely different game that just looks like Q3.

yeah, this was a point i was thinking about how to convey. its as though if you dont predodge you will be punished by an automatic second of damage the enemy gets on you while the snapshots make the trip from client to server to client, and some particular client in each instance is being given precedent based on some criteria. i hate to be so speculative, but the system just doesnt make sense. netquake, q2, and q3 made sense, but tbis is just so inconsistsnt and arbitrary seeming.

you just tired

finally, people admitting ql sucks balls.
it feels like shit. although 2008-2011 seemed perfectly fine.

I can literally look at a server, see who's on it and pinpoint who will warp, who warps slightly, who jitters ect ect ect.
it fucking sucks!

s'aight

i don't think ql sucks balls at all. ql is by far my favorite game. i met syncerror and the then-manager of the ql team and gained a lot of respect for what they were trying to do. it's like knowing a beautiful, intelligent woman who just happens to be extremely hairy. maybe others can overlook how her mustache tickles them, maybe some even like it. i can't. :(

the concept is great in theory.. but in practice ... its sux balls!

without all the community made content that has been borrowed or bought... it's not really a great game.
all they've bought really are some maps and whatever work arqon did.
freeze tag honestly was stolen... and made shitty and paid for.
ca is a rip off of ra3
brightskins... lol if it weren't for osp/cpma you know that it wouldn't even be in ql.

anything thats ever made any quake game great instead of just another game (besides the awesome engine)
is because of the community.

and that's why ql doesn't suck balls

nah.. game is shit... the community is pretty good though.

did they have an undocumented server side update? Lately I am seeing a lot of rails connecting behind walls that should not have.

i can't remember experiencing anything this awful and unpredictable and lopsided in cs or q3 or cpm or osp.

In CS, people use to say I killed them in the air all the time, on my side I'm just countering my movement and then shooting when I land. Guess stupid stuff like that is expected unless you have Lan ping.

Also I'm a bit confused, how wide is this corner? It's expected giving the limited movement space to be hit with high lg if your just standing around the corner but isn't rockets superior in that situation anyway? Also of all annoying 100% accuracy situations I find it most annoying when running around a corner and still being hit by some people's sticky lg. But that's essentially part of the game now though, most people hold fire and try and chase for those extra hits around corners. shrugs

i can see how its confusing. i meant that players will pop out from around corners and instantly start dealing massive damage with lg. and i mean situations where that sort of damage output is exceptional and not to be expected from somebody with 17% accuracy. it is like the server is queueing damage into a big block and then relaying it to the client instead of streaming gamestates and.serving as referee to compare what is being passed by both clients.

i know it is complicated and difficult, but it seems like ql has fallen into the trap of trying to please the lowest common denominator at the cost of worsening the experience for everybody else. i spent a lot of time as hpb learning to lead my shots, and i felt respect for nyself and other players who had the intelligence to develop that skill. at least when the netcode is honest there is no ambiguity and people can develop a firm sense of the system they are working with.

when the system compensates for you, people can just stagnate and receive benefits for playing average games, where those who try to strategise and convert and control items are punished seeminglh randomly by inconsistently depleted stacks, even when they have made good decisions and caught their opponents off guard.

skrry if this is rambly.

O, I think I know what your talking about, I remember being in a FFA (but out in the open though) and julios did something to this effect with just a weird blinding burst of lg. Certainly startling but I've always assumed it was packet loss or something.

"i spent a lot of time as hpb learning to lead my shots,"

I'm not a fan, I think that leading shots as a concept of realism is fair game. But in quake with some guns that I feel are more intuitively seen as instantaneous or perhaps even designed to be instantaneous are instead required to be lead based on very variable pieces of information to be just unsettling. And to me just doesn't feel good :/ but that's just me though

i am also curious as to whether this averaged/interpolated style of latency dampening somehow enables aimbots. a predicfive aimbot that compensates for latency seems like a very difficult concept to implement, but with nerfed networking it seems as though non-redicfive aimbots have a much larger window of effectiveness. is my understanding of this flawed?

It should indeed be easier to make an effective aimbot, just like it is easier to aim : because you must aim at the big green robot, not some position ahead of it determined by his velocity, acceleration, intent (rocket jump, turn...), physical obstacles and your ping.

what ur saying is people making the aimbot should be the ones making the netcode for the game?

I think you are putting way too much stock in how it 'feels' to you.
e.g "it is like the server is queueing damage into a big block". You dont actually believe this is the case, do you?

I think we need a another Weird netcode rant, come on mate one more should sort this out!

i dont have the information to know what to believe. all that i can do is describe experiences in a video game vividly enough that others can consider and understand them, possibly witbout having noticed them, and perhaps in such a manner that they will understand how to spot theze issues so that awareness of the issues can be raised. assuming the issues are issues at all.

http://www.ra.is/unlagged

Unlagged™ was coded by an instagib player who wanted to make it possible to hit RG shots when playing overseas with 150ms.. He kinda succeeded I guess, since you can indeed get a high RG acc with 125ms+ without difficulties. Who cares if half of these shots are false hits after all? Unfairness is justice.

In the process he also screwed up the weapon balance and created several new issues (the most known is the 'shot around a corner' one but there are a lot of them sadly).

And last but not least, Unlagged™ still gives a huge advantage to low ping players.

o_O

thanks for the link. i have been thinking a lot about the technical aspects of latency (in some ways it seems analogous to relativity & time dilation), but without the time & knowledge & experience to really test any concepts. this is, at least, a good practical demonstration. can't read atm, but will definitely check it later.

according to syncerror there is backwards reconciliation going on. my instinct is that this is a large part of the unexpected and sudden bursts of damage players are experiencing.

I've never liked the netcode either.

QL netcode is fine.

says a warping faggot... you're right up there with yufli.

warp holocaust

Lolwhat?

Who are you, you disgruntled, whacked out tard-bird? I haven't gotten warp complaints for months (since I got back on wired instead of wifi after I finished remodelling my house), so I'd be curious to play you again to see if you still experience warps with me - my bet is that they're either gone or on your end at this point.