Needs more Terminus.

need more support! but I'm thinking about swapping corrosion with it

Would certainly rather play terminus than corrosion.

Who backed corrosion for 4on4? :o

It's just a new map, thought i might try it out. like to switch things up you see :DD

Seems it is not popular tho :(

Sorry, i meant Terminatria, not terminus - I hate that map.

Terminatria works well in 4on4, corrosion not so much :<

agree, Terminatria is nice for 4v4. didn't try Corrosion so far...

Nice, glad people agree!

Lets get Terminatria in the pool :D

hahahaha.. you're not getting your plus back!

I hate you. :D

Terminus's fps bollocks is fixed?

Sweet, didn't realise this would start so soon. Hopefully I can scrape a team together.

Map pool rant: Ideally for me, the map pool should have been Adroits TDM + Terminus, thought we were finally done with Hidden Fortress and Intervention forever.

The map pool is completely up for discussion. Has anyone played Terminatria/Corrosion 4v4 yet?

Played Corrosion in a pickup once, felt too big right then to be played in a more organized way. Then again.. only once..

Played Terminatria, works good.

Terminatria is nice, don't know about Corrosion

Terminatria is good

Terminatria, yes. Corrosion only looks good for 2v2. Even then it's just a little too symmetrical. Seems kinda boring.

yeah i thought the same, bringing intervention back for eurocup wouldnt have anything to do with the fact that its one of cze's favorite maps and wision is an admin ;D

I think CZE don't care about EC that much, as u do :) they made a team for EC, to practice for adroits..

Doesn't change the fact that intervention is in the map pool.

<3 Intervention!!!

I liked how in ctf there was fixed maps every week. This would work for tdm too imo.

+Terminatria
+Terminus

-grim dungeons ( we have seen everything that map has to offer and now we have terminus)
-corrosion (Terminatria is better imo)

would only consider fixed maps with really good support from the community. CTF was forced this way due to the fact that CTF community is very stubborn.

stop with the QL carl and sort out ya CS! :o)

Go elsewhere

1v1 hub lets do it!

fu haxor

haha, sorry luke mate. not at the mo

corrosion doesnt look like a tdm map at all and we already had a discussion about it. terminatria is certainly the one that looks more interesting to me. also +1 for terminus obviously

you should just reconsider having a 5 map pool and drop all old maps, go limbus, dp, purga, terminus and terminatria. if you want to have 7 maps just add grim dungeons and corrosion/dm20/intervention. but that might be adding too many new maps at the same time.. i'd just go for 5 maps

hmm, if i get enough +'s I'll drop both corrosion and intervention and also might swap grim for terminus, yes, no ?

yeah sure, i still think dropping all old maps is a better idea. so your map pool would be limbus, dp, purga, dm20 and terminus?

fuck dm20 :D

fuck you :D

Fuck me :D

-dm20
+terminatria

:]

Out with the old, in with the new!

NEVER REMOVE DM14!!!! :(

I haven't played Terminus, but all the games I've watched there don't seem too exciting. The map just seems ENORMOUS. Seems like the only excitement is when someone goes for battlesuit, to see if they're going to make it off the platform without dying.

Looking for 2-3 German players for a low division team for this. Send me an IM or message cityy/awayyy on IRC.

-Intervention

this map is old as campgrounds i see no reason why this map is still in the mappool...

kk, read comment 14 :P

interventions a great map
regarding terminus... tbh not many have given it much of a go... i'd love to see it being played...

as a side note.. someone got a config which doesnt have fps drops on it.. please POST IT D:

thats simply because those that dont want to learn it at all can just drop it in eurocup, we had this exact same thing happen a few years back when dp and purgatory were introduced to the game. all old teams wanted to play pools like dm6, dm7, dm14, cpm4... dp and purgatory werent even given a chance at first until some people pushed for them to be included, which resulted in having some 1-day cups and getting them into the pool, sadly with drop/drop. what happened after that was them never getting played because they were dropped, and for example 4kings the dominating super force for years at that point, took literally a year to play their first purgatory game. exact same thing is happening now, just like i told the cb admins it would

some of the people who were against dp/purga back then are actually already posting in this thread

I dislike Terminus, love Tornado and Terminatria. I want Tornado back btw.

I'd accept Terminus in the pool, if you replace Deep Inside with it ;)

BTW, Tornado's history was pretty interesting. It was forced into a pick-pick cup (ENC), two teams got very good on it, everyone else hated losing on it, so now it's gone from the pools.

Moral of the story? Maybe don't force maps like that? Drop/drop tournaments are good chance for maps to become accepted in a more natural way, without being associated with some trauma.

you should probably post with your real nick

anyway, tornado was given a chance for several seasons in different cups, some being pick/pick. it simply didnt get much of a following, thus it was dropped. and i really cant remember any 2 teams being super dominant on it, there were plenty of teams who could play it decently

the biggest difference with what happened with dp/purgatory was obviously the fact that the teams that wanted to play them, never got to pick them

-Terminus
+Terminatria

How about playing only the new maps? Terminatria for instance looks awesome.

haha @ Corrosion, have you even seen that map? :DDDD

Terminatria on the other hand is a proper map, designed specifically for 4v4 and working there.

How about this map pool

Limbus,
Dreadful Place,
Purgatory,
Terminus
Terminatria

show support or alternative solutions.. I actually prefer the 5 map pool tho!

yes

Hey ho back in a few days, I hope you're keeping everyone alive!

Mappool's fine.

* the one in the OP

best imo : dm20 / purg / dread / limbus / dM14

"best imo : dm20 / purg / dread / limbus / dM14"

Just my thought. Very nice, compact mappool.

Good idea to put some new maps, but terminus? seriously? Take one old map (dm20, dm14, cmp4) instead. Map pool should be more balanced.

+dm20
+dm14

and im happy :)

Yes!

terminus has been awful so far, i see no point to continue forcing it
I'd rather even see tornado if you totally reject overplayed maps

I played a few games of Terminus and all I have to say is until it is fixed I can't really see myself enjoying any game on it with having FPS drops etc.

If and when frs fixez it, I'd put it in any map pool provided that there is no dm14 in it. As for Teminatria, I only jumped on it once so I'm not competent to say plenty about it. Corrosion I haven't tried.

I'd porbably go with: Dreadful Place-Purgatory-Limbus-Terminatria and a fifth map to be decided upon.

IMHO:

-purgatory
-dreadful place
-limbus
-terminatria
-corrosion

Not very Illuminated are we :D

no team, as always... if anyone need a player contact me on irc or ql. hf..

hoq will be throwing a team together :D #hoq.tdm come trail with us!

too many good people.. I have no hopes to play. but thanks anyway!

I am sure if you spam in HoQLeagues you could find a team, what makes you think we are too good ? we have a totally new team mate. just for fun. in low div come and trail at least !

same attitude like in pickups.. first u say: OH NO LOOK AT THE TEAMS.. then your team wins :D

try some +self esteem mate :]

ahah naa :D I dont say that too much times.. I usually play with suggested teams without say a word :)
anyway, tnx for the advice ;)

Damien7 doing good, take him while you can, guys!

tnx mate ;)

Campgrounds
Arena Gate
Fatal Instinct
Longest Yard
Asylum

troll alert :D hi mate o/

as hoq always had some more experimental maps

tornado, dp, limbus, dm14, dm20 or cpm4 would be an interesting pool to me
also I'm not reluctant to following maps: terminatria, cpm4, purga

plz keep dm6, osp5, osp6, terminus (sorry frs) out of the pool

can you explain to me why terminus is so much worse in your opinion than dm14?

cuz he hasnt bothered learning it so it must be shit

rite

dm14 has 3 main choke points to separate the two sides.

Terminus has like 30.

Not everyone enjoys 20 minutes of +speed pressed.

you should check your count again

terminus seems to copy a lot of elements of dm14, but still is worse in most regards

the only teams who play it are those that want to have an edge in competition over unpracticed teams

lol, good explanation?

the same has been said about every new map so far too

I agree.

You cant really compare DM14 with terminus tbh.
DM14 has a clear focus with RA/SG/RG while RG has 1 small attack way from secondary which can be done by 1 guy with RL, same @ SG room.
In Terminus you have the LG/GA with YA/SG and 2 shards near by and loads of attack ways, this guy(s) will be under constant pressure.
The second big differense is the MH with 5! attack ways, can only hope that the enemy doesnt have the time, else you better stay back and try to do dmg or something.
The main differense between the maps is that the key rooms on DM14 have 1 main attack way while every room in Terminus has mostly more than 3, you cant sit as 'relaxed' on both of the ya's in terminus.

Anyway, I'm not hating the map, I just think you cant compare them and yes I think DM14 is more fun to play as it aint as 'complicated' in general and as well to hold key areas.
And if I had to vote any map out of Terminus, Terminatria and Corrosion, it would be Terminus.
Corrosion just doesnt seem like a tdm map to me and I see problems on Terminatria with the dominant key weapons RG/LG nearby RA (and Quad). It might be fun in pickups, but I dont think the YA Guys will have any chance to get Quad with PG/RL in a proper team game. And no, I didnt play it yet, so I might be wrong!

/kisses and hugs

red area + bs is pretty much the same as on dm14, just that there's an lg instead of rg

finally something worthwhile

yep, it was never meant to be an exact copy of dm14, that would be pointless

the whole idea was to design it so there's more team action between powerups than on dm14, so its not just 1 team on RA side and others on the ya sides, but teams fighting over lg, rg and mega but still having quite clear sides for each team. it was never intended to be as campy as dm14 as it quite often turns to just waiting for powerups without having too much need to move anywhere besides trying to get rails.

what i dont get is saying its so complicated, pushing out for these items isnt THAT hard, teams just need to treat it in the same way as weapons on DP, you get red, push for an item outside your 'base', then return. you're not meant to camp RA room with 300 total armor in your team like 102 did for example

about the amount of chokepoints, you can see all of them are around the pre-RA room, except the jumppad at the back of red room. mega indeed is intended to be one of the items people fight over, thats why there are so many routes for it, but obviously each team will have their general direction where they are coming from so its quite logical to think about what you need to cover when you fight over it, unlike RA on purgatory where there are less routes but you dont have any clue where the enemy is coming from and you can be damaged from every direction, regardless of where you and your team came from just seconds previously


also i agree about terminatria, RA has direct access to lg, rg and rl. also the map seems to be a bit lacking in health overall. and the small ledge from rail to YA/PG/MH room is a bit crappy, should expand that a bit. i've been trying to reach bst on irc to talk about it but i havent found him. but im still certain its worth it to test it anyway.

agree about corrosion, i wrote a bit about it in the other thread, but basicly it doesnt give the tdm map vibe at all to me

ye, terminatria needs more hp and a gunswitch imo.
Place the RG'er on RA platform railing all entries incl. tele and the LG'er on RG (2 jumppad shaft fun) and gg :D

nice input mate !

<3

did you fix the FPS drops?

Any UK based/speaking teams in div3/4 need a player? I have decent aim but my TDM knowledge is, shall we say, lacking :)

why not step up and make a low div team ? I can see a few players looking to join a low skilled team, how about spamming for players in HoQLeagues and giving it a shot ;P

I will check it out... would be great to play some TDM again.. :)

I'd go with 7 map pool:

Limbus
Dreadful Place
Hidden Fortress
Grim Dungeons
Terminus
Terminatria
Purgatory

Some hate HF just because its very aim based, but its one of the most played maps. Some hate DM14 for beeing old map, but its the best tactical map there is. Some hate terminus just because they cba to learn it.

With pick pick everyone can play their favourite map anyway :)

Listen to this guy! Best map pool!

+ztn

No, thank you.

Dm14tmp and ospdm6 \o/

Rest is b*******

5 maps pool please; so noobs like me don't have to learn all the maps.

Arent you a mapmaker?! :D

Yes, mapmaker and noob.

> limbus
> dreadful place
> purgatory
> hidden
> terminatria

(
> dm14
> corrosion
for 7maps )

mb swap terminus with terminatria / corrosion due to mb not stable atm 4v4 competitive tdm map (just lke Yellack said, mb after some weapon switches it would be,) but nevertheless, we need to see this, so could someone PLZ PLZ PLZ do a show match on terminatria and corossion (just like LVL^ guys did on terminus and limbus with 102 and CZE), much <3,
mb guys like l0wfly and le - could do a showmatch?

why is eu so much cooler than na? =/ seriously jealous over here.
+new maps... frs has the right idea =)

Yeah seems we are going that way :D just giving a few more people the chance to get there say ill change it tomorrow or the day after :P

You guys just need someone to step up and run it and just push these new maps i guess! feel free to use our site to host on! just let me know man.

if 5 map pool limbus
purg
terminatra
terminus
intervention

if 7: hidden + dreadful place

but tbh i'd love to see retribution back in the pools.. used to love playing on that map in the old q3 test days...

pick pick drop drop would be nice ty

Me, phil and myth would play if there is a German speaking player who doesnt mind two brainless duel tards and one newbie. We haz good aim tho :P

Is that aimed at cityy ? if so i think he would be happy to play with you guys. he just wants to play for fun anyhow :P

1 limbus
2 dreadful place
3 purgatory
4 terminatria
5 tornado

terminatria is fairly decent(much better than terminus or corrosion) and certainly deserves a place as a tryout.
As for fifth
dm14 and osp5/6 really have to step down after so many years
so the only reasonable choice among new non-overplayed maps is tornado which hasn't been popular so far but is fairly good nonetheless. It also got a rather unique style different from other maps being compact map with 2 powerups and more positional/defensive battle style comparing to others
if you add terminus i don't think any team gonna play it except frs, while tornado got some chances
Another option is dm20 ofc, but I feel like that mappool would have too many open maps and tornado is more suitable imho.

1. Osp6 is old but everything else but overplayed. Its a great teamplay map, but not as zzzz as osp5. If you are looking for realy overplayed maps, take a look at dm20, dp and purga. Crazy some people can still call them "new" lol.

2. Terminus is an awful map. People cannt be serious adding it to cups/leagues. Its pretty unfair as well to drop tornado so fast. As soon as people starting to get used to it.

I would go with this pool:

1. Limbus
2. Dreadful place
3. Purgatory
4. Grim dungeons
5. Hidden
6. Tornado
7. Intervention

How about running a vote on HoQ page about the maps?

Talking about overplayed dm20/purga, still counting them alongside with o6 / dm14 from the year 2002 / 1999 and not willing to give terminatria / corrosion a chance :x

plus, dunno how you guys play it, but o5 at quakelive > o6 at quakelive in teamplay and excitement imo. both can be pretty imbalanced in terms of not very skilled on that maps players.

fo with tornado pls!! :D

lol man several teams have told me they'd play it as their home map and want to practise it vs us, and thats only from the eurocup teams

Talking about terminus? 30 maps been played so far in eurocup, 1 (fucking one) was terminus. In opencup its 52/3.

ggwp

dont you think it being dropped first by one of the teams almost every single time has an effect on it? just so you know, this happened with maps such as dp and purgatory when they were introduced to the pool


also tornado was played for several seasons in different cups and leagues, some with pick/pick. yet you say its unfair to drop it but it's ok to drop terminus after a couple of weeks of drop/drop league? :D

Would like to know if you would defend this map so hard if it were not yours. :D Dont get me wrong it is well designed, and good looking. Its just not q3/ql style at all. Its too complicated, overelaborated and cluttered to ever make it to a succesfull, frequently played map in ql and in tdm particularly. The fact it been dropped almost first in this cb season underlines it. Especially on a pick/pick league you must choose the map pool very wisely (actually i wouldnt go with more than 5 maps) to save the people from a forced upon pain in the ass. So deputy back your ego just a bit.

obviously it being made by me has an effect on it, but if you were around when tdm was picking up and we got new maps, i was one of the most vocal people about getting the new maps into the pool and being play tested, while the majority of the playerbase (then mainly old q3rs) wanted to stick with dm6, dm7 etc. terminus hasnt even reached 10% of its gameplay potential at this point

second, there are always some people who hate some maps, for example there are a load of people who just hate dm20 and having it in the pool in pick/pick is a forced pain in the ass for them, me included. like i said in the earlier post which you just deemed fit to ignore, dp, purgatory etc had the same drop treatment when they were introduced to the pool. took a year for 4kings to play their first purgatory game for example

instead of saying anything about my counter arguments, you just give _your opinion_ of the map and then try to make it personal.

Has nothing to do with "new" maps. Limbus was introduced at the same time as terminus and was almost an instant succes while terminus is kinda "irrelevant" as long as you dont force people to play it. You also dont have to tell me how dp/purga made it to top3 of tdm maps, i was pretty "arround". Not comparable with terminus. Off course people are not always good to new things, but some things are just new, and others are new and inappropriate. Feel the difference.

yeah of course limbus was an instant success in tdmpickup, that's just the style of the map, it is very fitting for pickups. terminus was designed from a completely different starting point, meant for organized team play. it's not like dm14 is popular in tdmpickup, is it? actually, if it was introduced now, people would refuse to play it saying its too campy and camping red for 20 minutes is no fun etc.

Not only pickup. Limbus was a major map on adroits and is frequently picked on current clanbase season.

that's true. but the reasons are the same, the map is quite simple and straightforward and doesnt need more than 1 game to learn. it's a succesful map but it all comes down to the style of it. like i said, dm14 wouldnt be accepted now either, and its losing popularity all the time, especially among the new teams. no other new map has come even close to trying to do anything similar to that.

I think i had to say it much earlier but the whole concept of pick/pick is nuts already. But i guess the most fair way to figure the map problem out is to do a multiple choice vote on the maps for the pool. Best on the HoQ homepage for registered users obvious.

actually i think the fairest way is to just have them all in the pool for now and see what happens

think we're just going in circles here, you dont like the map and dont want to see it given a shot, but i do. end of discussion

Thats not true. I dont like the map and dont want to be forced to play it. Thats all. Dont disregard the fact terminus already got its shot on clanbase. And for me it can stay in the pool as long people can drop it. This is the true equality for all maps. Any map can be dropped. Simple as that.

If you want a "tornado-lifecycle" for your map wich someone already described previously, keep on pushing it. But because its not my or your desicion, the masses deserve to have a chance to decide it. Not a one damned thing speaks against a vote.

yeah you've made your opinion based on 0 games and dont want to even play it. anyway, 3 weeks of drop/drop league isnt enough to say anything, lets see what happens in playoffs and what kind of games we get and if opinions change.

Limbus
Hidden Fortress
Purgatory
Terminatria
Dreadful Place
-----------------------
Grim Dungeons
Deep Inside

Would be nice, if a talented mapmaker would look into Retribution; some layout change, addition, shaft spawn.

-Hidden Fortress
+Retribution

the people who are having fps drops on terminus:

can you upload screenshots of your configs
is it room specific? if so, which rooms?
do you use r_subdivisions 80?
is your QL set to high performance in gfx card settings?
post anything else that might solve this probelm.

im just having trouble understanding these fps drops, when we were making the map i was testing it with my 7 year old pc and didnt suffer any fps drops on it, while i had some minor drops on toxicity and dreadful place.

Terminatria is a really cool map, should be played more.

so is terminus

... lol

I think its sad that most people now doesnt seem to want tdm maps wich is more focused on the tactical and teamplay side of tdm. I think ppl are just lazy, if they cant learn the map after playing it once they rather drop it. For me maps like dm20, purgatory etc isnt that interesting, they play more like some mix of tdm and ca rather then tdm.

But that seems to be the trend ppl want easier and dumbed down games in terms of having to use your brain. On dm20, purga, tornado etc you ofcourse need skill to be succesfull but mostly combat and aim based skills, they are maps where 1 player who shines in those areas can make a massive difference, as is shown by juvenile, zyrinx, noctis etc. For me the fun part about tdm has allways been the teamplay and tactical side of the game.

Variety is important in my opinion, you can't have every map play like Grim Dungeons, in the same way that you can't have every map play like Hidden Fortress. I think a good map pool will always have maps of varying styles to challenge teams and test different skillsets.

I would certainly agree with you though that it's always harder to introduce maps that are more focused on the tactical and teamplay side of the game. These maps are firstly, very difficult to make and get right, but secondly, unpopular while they're not understood. You can most obviously see this with the introduction of Limbus and Terminus. The pickup friendly map Limbus has been fairly popular so far, it's easy to learn and you can get by on it with fundamental quake skills. Terminus unfortunately doesn't get a similar reception, regardless of whether it's a good map, and I haven't formed a complete opinion on it yet for obvious reasons (its been played in one eurocup game?), it seems to be given less chance than a far simpler map.

There's a general inclination toward new maps, however, there are no widely accepted new maps so far that compare in terms of playstyle to Grim Dungeons, therefore how can this map ever be dropped? At the moment there's no way it can be in my opinion, that is if you wish to maintain a map pool that includes a balance of playstyles. I don't know what mapmakers are working on currently, but I really hope there are some looking to address this, frs has certainly tried, but it remains to be seen whether his map can breakthrough and become accepted.

Yes for the sake of the game and the community i agree with you about variety :) That was just my personal preference when it comes to tdm. If the community want faster more combat oriented maps instead of maybe slower paced but more tactical teamplay rewarding maps then so be it.

I too want variety but it seems to me that the trend seems to bend towards maps like dm20 and purga. Dont get me wrong i think its very impressive seeing players like noctis or zyrinx dominate on maps like dm20 since it obviously takes great skill. On the other hand team cze and swe showed that you can still reach very far with good teamplay even with the current map pool.

I dont know i am just rambling i guess, but i very much want to see a map like terminus get atleast a solid chance.

100% agree!

I think 5 maps are perfect for pick pick drop drop ..

-purgatory
-dreadful place
-limbus
-terminatria
-hidden

# the best 2 new maps limbus and terminatria are in
# lot of people dislike Terminus (real mess)
# Corrosion is really really big. I was on the one pickup that has played the map with ani, and its really HUGE.

bests, matr1x!

Are you serious? Corrosion is not bigger than ztn. Its TOO SMALL for 4v4.

Every room is huge tho with big entrances. Too big or to small, it doesnt seem tdmish.

Ever played the map? Corrosion is like 3 times+ ZTN.

I guess you just cannot compare propperly.

So what was the decision? Is that 7 map pool the final?
If its pick pick I'd personally go for a 5 map pool.

Yeah, tell us the final mappool decision pls, so people start learning new maps

Map pool listed is final :P sorry have been AFK

- pick pick
- terminus

t_t

any team that needs a player? msg me here or irc (nick: esdf)