Better have a generous/stupid investor who wants to fund it. The idea obviously appeals to just about every quake fan I imagine, but they realistically don't expect it to happen.

It wouldn't necessarily be stupid as long as the prize pool isn't these huge 100k - 2mil prize pools. It doesn't take much to spark the interest of quake players since we've gotten the short end of the stick for years when it comes to prize money.

Quake is universally entertaining for most people, even if you've never played a game of quake in your life. So as long as its advertised correctly then I would guess it could be worth it for whoever invested, just nowhere near as much as the sc2/moba scene.

Whoever would choose to invest in such a thing is gonna really need to be a quake fan :P

if it would be worth it then people would still sponsor events

anyone here gay?

hi

Where would this circuit go?

Need to know, in what direction its better to move in Quake for next LAN. Thought circuit idea might work at some point.

-TDM +CTF

It would be awesome and most likely bring a lot of talent back, but its been talked about in the past and never happened. No one is willing to take the risk for QLive.

The question is, can you make it in more different way then usual DreamHack ish LAN with that system?

Dont want to read depressing comments about quake dead etc. plz

I don't really understand what you mean by making it in a more different way.

online leagues with different divisions then LAN final for example

That could work as long as there was enough talent for each regions division, it would be easier for duel. Currently I would think some sort of draft league for each region could work best for any team type.

-jones
-old talent
+tdm
+new talent

=) naw but it wont work for w.e mode... maybe in europe MAYBE :|

Just because you suck a CTF doesn't mean you have to hate on it ;)

I'd happily enjoy seeing new talent come into the game, but the majority never have the dedication to reach the level of the old talent.

when was I hating on ctf O_o

You're right, excuse my quick accusation.

what about:

+tdm
+ctf
+old talent
+new talent

In an ideal world that would be best.

haha now we're all on the same page! =)

JESUS PEOPLE, MOVE ON

I can already see 3 problems with it.

1st Cost to travel lan
2nd You need to make sure that you have a pricepool
3rd You need alot of money to host LAN

FOM LAN in Belgium has 1000 seats. Is that big enough?
I'm attending 250 seat LAN next weekend (With a Quake 3 competition! www.thestorm.be) Is that still big enough or already too small?

Hosting a lan can possibly cost a lot if you are trying to be exactly like Dreamhack, but if you tone it down and let it grow, like QuakeCon started then you could give something like that a chance.

You need to interest people just enough to attend, not overwhelm them from the start with an all out awesomefest, digging a hole of debt and in the end realize it's just not worth it (financially).

The number 1 issue would not be to setup a LAN, but to get the players to that LAN.

1v1 could be a side show to LoL, sort of a circus of freaks.

DreamHack Global Quake Tour? ;)

like?

Make online qualifiers during the year, finals at DramHack events.

having quake at these smaller DH stops (bucharest, other eizo opens). and what happened to that $10k quake lan 2gd was gonna do? from what it seems the sponsors must have told him that he can't do that since it won't get enough attention, because i remember he said that quake will continue on their arena w/ the same prize pool.

im totally not a fan of online, cause online plays so differently then lan.. and there still alot of cheaters here and there.. a quake tour for me depends on if it will be in Europe (and should be open to anyone)... cause usa would be to expensive for europeans im all open for tdm or ctf and duel is also a option but i do not prefer it tho

but isnt duel supposed to attract more usual ppl and spectators, then tdm or ctf? We need to get interested many new people, I got few messages after adroits lan, ppl signed up in ql and purchased pro accounts only after adroits lan. It was successfull enough for such game. Might try safely to make this bigger in Europe. Seems we are all closer to a some kind of tour as for now. But need to have support of many quakers in community.

thats true ye, but i prefer to play tdm/ctf over duel anyday thats my preference i also prefer to watch tdm/ctf over duel anyday also my preference other people prolly prefer to watch duel

at this point, at least for next event we should stick with duel and tdm.

"You just need good streaming HUD (with health bars + weapon icons for both teams), quad room cams, minimaps and you're done!" - and thats how you can make TDM picture better in front of new ppl

"You just need good streaming HUD (with health bars + weapon icons for both teams), quad room cams, minimaps and you're done!"

This is all possible right now, but the main thing I'm struggling with is syncing all of this. I had a question to the uberdemo guys that would make it a little more easier, but haven't gotten round to it.

If you can find a clever way to start all the views at the same time...

using mm's 2D viewer would be uberawesome!

i do think ctf is hardest mode to watch (hardest to produce to be pleasant for viewers) tbh, would be much easier with some overlays, like memento mori's 2d viewer and maybe even multi pov so you don't have to switch from 1 flag carrier during the crosscap.

also, what every ctf caster should have binded: spec fc and spec pu

Duel is definitely less interesting, but:
- it is easier to broadcast (esp. with zero support for streaming team games from id Software),
- it produces stars easier. You can employ personal cult around a single player (like rapha).

But dm13 games with 6 overtimes are really not what will bring new viewers and players.

TDM meanwhile can provide games with 500 frags (things dying keeps people interested). You just need good streaming HUD (with health bars + weapon icons for both teams), quad room cams, minimaps and you're done!

agree on dm13, cant believe its still being played

It might work in Europe with Duel. TDM is more active then CTF so it may work too. To make it happen you would need something like league for whole year.

For example 2 divisions: PRO and AMATEUR. For half a year in one month (summary 5) you/team play 3 matches. 4 people/teams in each group. 4th week is cup for everyone from the groups (seeds based on groups). This monthly-final cup with prizes. Then 6th month break for LAN with huge prizes. Twice a year. To the LAN comes for example best 16 players/teams from monthly-cups.

LAN is 4x4 with 16 SE bracket or 2x8 with 8 SE bracket.

well an online league with playoffs in LAN over a weekend would easily be the best choice. however this would need quite a bit of funding as you would need to cover (atleast) some of the costs for the teams coming, costs for the venue etc. or it wouldnt be anything else than a regular LAN except restricted participation to the teams which make it to playoffs. realisticly this would mean xx% of the teams would not come to the playoff/final LAN and in worst case scenario it would have to be cancelled.

so in my mind your options for having a tdm LAN is to either do a classic LAN without any online component and everyone who can muster the funds is allowed to come, OR you get a lot of money from somewhere, have a big online league where top 2-8 gets flown into the final LAN.

one thing is for guaranteed, you should not count USA in any manner when planning this, there are a few guys who you can make exception rules for (dahang, rapha) but otherwise you should purely focus on EU.

Use CTF in the US, leading up to a LAN final at QuakeCon.

Use TDM in EU, leading up to a LAN final at DreamHack.

Now all we need is an online draft league for CTF with enough incentive for a decent amount of talent to consistently play up to QuakeCon and we're good to go! :)

In all seriousness it would be awesome if there was an online CTF draft league that would pay the winners for room and travel to QuakeCon.

I wish QL ctf didn't feel so damn slow :(

anything like that needs big support, ideally from the developer

people will only show with paid trips, hotel etc.. I don't think prize money would even be the biggest concern, this way you could run half year seasons and send over the top 2 to the other continent

this also needs a more streamlined cup system, map pool, etc.. to work perfectly and that could be on the ql platform itself (not only for people who read esr and irc)

But what about ID Software support, if we make, for example, QuakeLIVE Europe Tour, I'm sure there will be benefits for ID in this case.

honestly i think you need to be realistic here. the amount of funding required to have a single LAN final is huge, let alone getting players to several LAN stops during a season.

you cant expect players to come to LAN every 3 months out of their own pocket, and you'd be hard pressed to find an investor who would pay for it.

im 100% of the opinion that if you can get a decent amount of funding from somewhere, you run a long online league and then have LAN playoffs where you use the funding to cover the travel and hotel costs. at the same time the teams themselves need to get organizations involved again and try to get max exposure for this.

you cant skip from A to D, you need to go from a, b, c to d. expecting to have an europe tour with several LANs during the season without having any sponsorship organizations involved for the players is just too much to ask for at this point.

if you cannot get that kind of funding, any dreams of tours or even online+LAN playoffs are wasted and you're better of having a adroits/dreamhack type of event where majority of the funding comes from the players themselves.

we could hold LAN finals in Croatia, it's cheap as fuck here. :D

I've toyed wioth that idea but it takes too much funds curently to make it happen unless you're using like continental infrastructure, and let's face it it's not quite as attractive as the coastal part.
But yeah it would be cool since it would bring out people from Balkan region for a lowered cost and the cost to get here from northern europe is well within their budgets TBH.

also, cost of life here for those 2-3 days would be marginal to foreigners. you need 100€ for 3 days here, even if you smoke and drink.

all u would need is to show the alcohol prices to the scandinavians. that alone would be worth the trip.
Hmz, even though .cz prolly beats us with that:\

Dubrovnik lan event would be nice though:)



on topic: Stermy, whens UGC2?

Dubrovnik would be dubai style event, even dubai could be considered cheaper.
You do it in Rijeka, or on an island (internet could be an issue tho :) ). Or Zagreb and you could get away with it.

big events: attracts viewers + players
prizes: attracts players
preperation(daycup once a month for the community) /announce it in time: attracts outsiders
showmatches
online qualifys. Why online qualify u might ask. But i can see it easier for outside teams or players that watched the first qualify want to enter the next qualify to play it. Wich is not possible if ur doing a league.

duel and ctf. i dont mind tdm, just think its really boring to watch.

Some help from id? Only reason shootmania has a bigger community right now is because nadeo put alot of money into events.

it is a nice idea and i think this will bring some old q3 players to play again and will promote Quake LIVE alot, if it will be in Europe with Duel and maybe TDM, i guarantee that it will be allways full :P

DreamHack organize other LANs exept winter and summer ones, so if you can convince them to add ql, it will be really nice

else, i dont think anyone or any organization will do this, at least, not in the current situation where everything think or want that ql dies.

yes. yes of course! one thing i nerver get though about the LANs

Y U HOLD LANS IN EXPENSIVE PLACES?

Germany is just as central as nl is and its almost 30 percent cheaper in everything.

Czech Republic is about 1/3 of Germanys prices and it would welcome the eastern europeans. Same with Poland or Austria!

It really would be in favor of the community to hold LANs at reasonable places.

But first get sponsors thats most of the work anyway. good luck!

Also FUCK tdm, CTF ftw!

Germany cannot into lan because of law... apparently you need to be 18 yo to play quake :D or something like dat, i dont remember anymore...

and yeah, i also was wondering about lan places... Poland, Czech Rep, even Germany are much more central, thus making it more possible to come for eastern ppl...


IN ET every big lan is located in wzzrd centre in holland, just to make it hard for eastern ppl... all western egotards can boost "i've played on lan, you cheat stupid polak"

wzzrd in holand is quite cheap to travel to, in 2007 I was at CDC3 for like 200e in total, including travel, living, and food

theres a pretty sick cybercafé being built in prague
http://www.facebook.com/district.prague/photos_stream

Cmon, guys are you serious?:>

QL problem is not lack of event ideas, its lack of MONEY for events...

We should think about gathering the money... When we have it, we can think about spending it...




PS. i've been wondering... wouldnt it be possible to use kickstarter to raise money for few lan events? i bet there are ppl willing to watch quake, they are just not aware of esr existance etc etc. Kickstarted would allow us to gather small sums of $$$ from ppl willing to watch quake lans every 2 months...

Am i naive?:<

It's funny you are suggesting a fundraiser considering you are cheap enough not to spend $24 on QL.

np, i may be cheap, likes of you will pay for me :-)

With Kickstarter, you need to provide benefits and incentives to those donating money.

What benefits and incentives do you suggest?

i have no idea how kickstarter works tbh...

benefits? top class quake action :D

A simple donations initiative would suffice for that. Kickstarter is more about getting the funds and thanks the people in different ways depending on how much they've donated.

It would work since stuff like that has been done before.
Over and over again.

TDM and duel will be great but I think there are still some core issues with QL itself before you can reach "dream scenario" for this type of tournament. The popularity of more 'casual' FPS games like CoD and Halo show that FPS is still a well-liked game type. So why do these communities have so much more support and players than Quake?

First of all, id would need to remove the free/premium dichotomy. I know it's not much money, but from a marketing standpoint it has a huge effect on the player base. People under 18 or those without credit cards are automatically unable to play. How many kids parents who are under 18 would be willing to pay monthly for an 'ego shooter'? Probably not that many, thus forcing the Quake community to older Quake fans/players. Free quake is a completely different (shitty) game. If a player doesn't have any e-friends, they can not play on 'real' servers. Free servers do not allow voting, are restricted to certain maps etc. It basically gives an overall crappy impression of the game, especially for old players who want to play their old favourites, or new players who want to see what the game is about.

This kind of competition has the potential to attract "new" players, those who are curious and would like to try the game. However, free quake is NOT the same and the "freemium" model is not effective bringing new players to Quake. Quake needs new players (especially in the competitive scene) because we're all getting old. We have other commitments and many can not practice as much as they would like to achieve a high level of play (think; fox, tox, stermy etc). 'Fresh blood' makes things interesting, and also shows that you don't need to be a quake player for 10,000 years before being able to compete. Thus, more motivation + attainable goals + increased competition = more players --> more money and sponsors.

If id could take a page from LoLs business model (which is hugely successful and you don't need to pay anything to get access to the main features of the game - instead you can earn it through leveling) then the Quake community could benefit from such a tournament. Without it, we will just see the same stagnant level of activity with only increased activity in those who need to train for the tournament.

With this kind of tournament, Quake has the potential to see an increase in spectators and players. I believe that the key selling point for Quake is accessibility. Quake is able to run on old PCs through the browser, therefore you could hypothesise that the reason the level of activity is much lower than it potentially could be for the following reasons:
1. Free players get a bad impression
2. New players just aren't interested - Quake might be too difficult, learning curve too high etc.
3. New players may have difficulty entering the community since it's on 'old fashioned' mediums (ie: IRC for pickups, ESR, only chat off servers with 1 person at a time etc)

From the other side of things (media coverage and presentation), there are also issues. Game commentary is very important in reaching people who don't know or understand the complexities of the game. Starcraft for example, is complex yet loved by so many. Day[9] has been instrumental for the community thanks to his dailies. He talks about the game, the community, the players, look at replays of games to discuss tactics etc. There is a need for this in Quake. Youtube video views indicate this; CZM's recent run-through of silence, DDK's duel theory and Strenx's duel lessons have much more views than other Quake related videos uploaded around the same time.

I think the streaming projects are a great step forward. With a large amount of coverage and accessibility to the best players (ie: asking strenx questions on his stream) this could also capture the attention of new players, especially through something like twitch (combined with VOD on youtube for additional exposure) since basically the target audience is already there. But this probably needs to be presented with a schedule (ie: new vids every wednesday, streaming times between x:xx - x:xx) to keep people engaged over a long period of time, and knowing when to come back.

So why is all of this relevant for this specific tournament idea?

Because tournaments like this need a large following to be lucrative to any sponsor. No company is going to want to support a dying game with an already loyal, well-read community. Therefore traditional marketing and advertising may not be interesting for sponsors due to the existing Quake audience. If Quake had a wider audience then it is more likely to generate financial support (more eyeballs = more worthwhile to spend money on advertising). And for that, I think there needs to be effort from both the presentation side (commentary) and the business model. If things stay as they are, I am sad to predict that Quake tournaments will be fewer and far-between.

But these are all long-term thoughts. For the short-term, a tournament like this would be lovely. If you can line up the sponsors for the prizes, i'm sure the teams will come.

TL;DR: long-term = no hope, short-term = nice idea

Those three points could easily be fixed if id pulled their fingers out of their asses.

Free up the content but keep pro accounts that gives the ability to create clans and servers. Add some more extensive tutorials for movement, timing, positioning, and one for each gametype as well. Link to guides that players have made on Q3 in the past. Also have some kinda inbuilt irc and link to ESR on the front page.

Needs some type of ladder system too, and maybe even link to top player's (determined by the ladder) streams on the QL homepage.

I also think there should be server demos available of every game that allows you to view every player's POV (at least as an option in pro-spawned servers). Can't understand why its so impossible to host the files since QL demos are only like 5-10mb each. Its 2012 ffs. Replays of dota matches are saved after every game - such a necessary feature imo.

Links to existing tutorials are a great idea. LoL does this very well with promoting stuff on the front page of the game.

Mini-maps are also essential especially if you want to reach a wider audience for TDM or CTF. It provides the best insight for teamplay and those who may not understand it will be able to pick it up much faster. Also helps with learning maps a lot faster.

But these changes would require the support / care from id and from what I hear, this just isn't possible. So for now, the only option is what vor mentioned, find a quaker with a lot of money who would wants to support it, don't count on LAN servers being available during the morning (since id. aren't awake to spawn servers) and hope that the community itself can motivate one another to play / watch.

thanks for the great feedback and interesting ideas. I think the main priority for now is "stream feature" you mentioned.

reminds me old clanbase eurocup system - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHYozlVJbeg

funny to see what kind of shit frags counted as good or attractive back in the day.

Vq3..zzzzz
Someone wake me up when reborn comes out. Thanks

when that comes around there won't be much of you to wake up.

The idea is nice.. but I'm not sure if it's doable in current state with current teams (speaking about TDM only). I pretty much agree with what vor/frs/liefje said already.

Online matches with LAN finals might not work with ql since difference is huge, you can't say the same about Dota2, for example. But if you mentioned online qualifiers or divisions where top teams get paid for the LAN finals, is that ok? Or is it better for QL to make all lan?

if you get the funding for it, online league with paid trip to playoff LAN is the best choice. if you cant get that kind of funding (and i doubt you will), regular LAN event what we've had so far is the way to go

also having different divisions is certainly not a good option with such a huge "prize", obviously its good incentive for lower level players but its just massively unfair, lower div1 teams which are better than top div2 teams cant go but div2 teams can go? just make 1 division with all the teams, 1-4 groups and playoffs in LAN

you do regular LAN events, how you can turn to online+LAN events from that? Otherwise you can have this usual LAN events forever.

without outside funding for the participants, i dont think you can do a meaningful online+LAN event.

you need to consider the overall scene for QL, the 'qualifier' for any team LAN right now is not skill but simply the fact: do you want to pay for it yourself + can you go. having an online qualifier to weed out the weaker teams AND then reducing that limited amount of teams (lets say 8 make it to playoffs and qualify to the LAN) to those that can and are willing to pay for the trip is so low that it loses its point. not to mention the fact that there are probably teams who wont qualify skillwise in the online league, but would be still willing to pay for the trip

there's nothing wrong with doing these "usual" LAN events for now, there is PLENTY to improve on for both organizers and teams when it comes to exposure etc etc. the key here is to have a succesful event like DHS 2011 and get some e-sports organizations involved at ANY level (so not demanding them to pay for the trip for their teams, but just jerseys and shit and just get them involved once again) to bring exposure to both the event and QL/TDM

I think ur reasoning outside the box here.
A league is closed after it has begun.
How is that attracting players outside quake? Online qualifys is better because everyone and anyone outside quake can try to win that Qualify spot for each qualify.
Promoting in time has to be done. Get 2gd to cast and do some Showmatches.
Ask ID for help. Ask twitch for help

qualifier or league really wasnt the focus of my posts at all, but the meaninglessness of an online component if you cant get the funding.

your point about having qualifiers is good, however the downside is that once a team qualifies you wont be seeing them play anymore, and for me personally more games = better. there's plenty of good and bad sides for both tho, in the end i dont care which it is, just having it happen would be awesome enough (and i dont see it happening)

I think online tournaments would be beneficial if they culminated with a lan that is on a set date. Defined upfront.

Let's say it went like this:
You have 3 tiers (Pro/Semi/Am) and you have money to cover team participation or sponsor out rewards that can be culminated into payable costs on lan (credit system).
You don't do the standard let's get out the PRO's for this, since most of hardcore people will find a way or means of getting to a lan. But you advertize this as a chance for minor team to get a break. And you divide the money into 3 pools (25-Pro/25-semi/50Am).
You'd actually get newer teams forming trying to compete to get the credit for that lan and plan to go. Since they are shielded. You can also make progression to have them playout everything and then practicly qualify for the upper league.

plus side:
You get new teams into lans
You don't have to setup prize money for am league but credit system which makes it easier for them to participate in a lan
You have them play safely from being but hurt by colwn/ic/salivating monstahz/xt etc.
You get top teams hooked on some participation in lan, playing against top teams for money prizes.
You get top teams not being bored with bashing lower teams and stermy not dying for 20 minutes.
You also get hype about Quake being supportive for newer players if you setup advertising properly and doing some community work in spreading the word bringing in new people etc.

As far as I see it this would bring out more teams like impulse7 was on this last lan. Oldschool players that haven't played in a long time joining up. You of course should clear out those teams after few online tourney to a harder league like a semi. Or teams like TE and skillz currently unless they naturally progress into top tier.

Don't get me wrong but most very oldchool quake players still support and keep this game alive but there is a mercish mentality to those guys, what needs to be brought up is some newb friendly ascpect of this game.
Quake is hard, it's harder then most FPSs out there, do the practice and for a team, play hard, learn hard and join the guys that are top on a lan.

i'd probably refuse to play in a league where 6 div4 teams get sponsored to get to the LAN event and only 3 div1 teams. seriously having competitive LANs abroad isnt the way to introduce newbs to quake and any beginner expecting to get a funded trip to a LAN just cause he picked up QL can fuck straight off

and because of that people refuse to play quakelive, when you think about needing to put in 1plus year into getting good to still get owned by old fuckers still playing this game and pointing at themselves as bosses and attention whoring around :)

I'd guess most people playing this game and coming up to some success in it would rather like going to a lan be it paid way or financing most of it themselves, since right now you can't get anything else.

So the current situation is: You want money for yourself, but you won't get sponsor for it anyways. GG you just lost.

Situation I'm speaking of rather goes like this:
You get 25% off and you make a success story about some newer teams being div1 or at most div2 getting to see what it's like playing on a lan and meeting with more experienced players broadening the circle pretty much.

I agree it's not fair towards players who are playing for years and years, on the other hand with that attitude you'll get what is rolling with every quakelive event in near or far future. A poorer and poorer invitational duel event featuring 16 of same faces doing and repeating recent matches and scores with a few upsets and a new face very ocne in a while joining up since some of old faces got sick and tired of rinse and repeat.

edit:
You are very much withing your rights to refuse playing with "nonplayers" by your standards, on the other hand you prolly wouldn't be missed much by 8-12 attending clans well distributed into non bashing tiers having good fun on a such an event :)

all international lans are like that anyway, unless you can name one game in which mediocre players get sponsored.

That doesn't even happen on the most popular one (lol, roflmao, lolers) and that's a good example because elo brackets are published there (0.2% of active players are platinum and that's not sponsorship material. The 0.001% is, which are diamond bracket that are suitable for 5v5).

and since you judge quake games trough prism of other games like lol and dota2 and sc2 which are more popular and need minor fixes and attract new players all by themselves your argument stands and is correct.
However I'm not looking at quake in such a way, nor I think it should be done in any conventional way it's been done so far.

im sorry, but do you seriously think people refuse to play quakelive because they dont get a sponsored trip to a LAN? rofl. as it is "newer" div1 and div2 teams are just as free to go to LANs as anyone else is, why on earth would they deserve to get there for less? as it is now, hardly anyone is making money on quake and everyone participating in these LANs (especially tdm wise) do it purely because thats whats fun to them AND paying for it by themselves. atm there is no skill restriction to join the lan and the cost/profit marginal is the same for everyone else except the winner basicly. everyone pays for themselves, everyone has the same fun, everyone experiences the same event

having special treatment on the scale of covering hotels/travel for a group of 8-24 people who happen to fall into some arbitrary slots of "not quite decent" and "too shit to be in div3" to get to a LAN isnt even remotely close to what is needed to fix the issues with QL. not even the most popular of e-sports with the most money involved have tournament organization sponsored trips for lower division players, its a prize worth fighting for and not some donation

you need to have a clear cut division between an e-sports LAN and a community LAN. if there's any tournament organization side sponsoring happening, it would be considered an 'e-sports' LAN and in such a case having bigger sponsoring for worse players just undermines the whole concept. in the case of a huge scene/demand (which QL is not) having an extra division below the very best could be considered. if its a community LAN, then its only fair people pay for their own expenses

And while noone can promote sponsors and we saw how good of a job adroits has done as a community lan in that aspect you can't really argue that word of mouth about having costs covered on some lower teams wouldn't make a difference inside community in attracting players to form teams and play more.

Look I'm not arguing you're mad saying that div3 teams and people playing this not organized, don't deserve the cost covered and participation.

Thing is nicer was asking about organization and ideas, I ran out with mine.
It's really simple you reward effort and you don't cover everything , but you don't push and reward people playing 15plus years, they really don't need much, they love and they play it, they are motivated.
I'm saying that teams like TE, teams like GC, teams like pigs or WzJ would benefit greatly in a push with rewarding their effort more that that of let's say Unknown who are mid playing elite like mercenaries and money oriented.

When you see something like that you attract interest in the game. Also there is no skill cap, and for it you'll always have people saying that HOQ can play vs colwn or ic any day ... it's okay, it's good, it's great, it's 20 minutes of stermy not dying TBH and that is BAD, and that shows what sort of difference there is between organized and serious teams.

Why not then single those teams out and separate prize pools making it worht their while, to play?
Or even better making the competition harder since when there is a lower pool to play for maybe you'll see newer teams popping out.

It's a change in style marketing and community dynamics, you either deal with it, or shit on it. In any case it's not a terrible idea, it just need detailing. Which you could do instead of BSing around.

obviously covering costs would attract players to form teams, of all levels. but its completely undeserved for them to get "paid" to just form a team for LAN while others have stuck together and have to pay everything by themselves. why does a team like TE deserve it more than lets say lowfly, sitto, action? just because they cant keep a solid roster and get practise in? we're not talking about some abstract thing that fits the criteria of "they really don't need much, they love and they play it, they are motivated." but about actual money. it is an undeniable fact that reduced costs for the LAN trip would interest every single quake player interested in taking part.

separate prize pools to make it worth their while? for several divisions? the amount of money involved in quake TDM isnt worth ANYONE's while, besides the winners of DHS 2011 got beer money after they covered their costs.

I'd normally agree that this isn't something you'd use in a normal environment, or in a normal game, with a normal community.

But if you'd do it like this you get attention, and maybe even attract sponsor attention, since newer face have the opportunity to endorse those sponsors :)

On the other hand, this is an idea to be tweaked with time, since you want lower teams to be motivated to progress and not just sit back and be content with tier2 games.

So what you do is, you design a circuit and games in which you attract sponsors and bring out teams and players for 2 season, first season you test it out, and you do it smartly :) Second season you make it concrete, since the teams are counting on it, and they stick together, get into it more, maybe even progress, then you tweak it to 50-50

The you tweak it even more to 25-75 since now you've got teams to work with, and teams that progress actually bring out more new teams ...

This is not a viral effect since it should be planned and executed really carefully, takes more work and time but it has greater rewards than any circuit organized with same shit that we've seen for last 3 quakelive years.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2337459/faceit-...-elo-cups/

So if for instance you'd follow up on this and you have like 3 guys with low elo ranks playing this like mad, they would progress into upper divs starting from rookie. They would also get to save or earn money dollar by a dollar for which in one years time they could for instance cover part of traveling costs to a big event like dreamhack or adroits or god forbid Quakecon

Now let's say you've got 16 of the usual suspects in duel, but someone started from rookie and earned his way up to veteran, now he could actually pose a threat to 16 players we usually see.
So progress and time in game is rewarded from earlier stages and that attracts competitors and more players desiding that it's maybe worth their while to play quake.
Lastly you could also make best of each tier on a lan event making them battle out for some more substantial prize without "pro" players swooping in and grabbing it.

Now translate this system to TDm/CTF and you'd get to something worth while, different and new!

~50e per person (if you win every cup and obviously if you win 6 months in a row you should be promoted to upper div) for a years worth of playing quake with that kind of prize pools, hardly something to go "wow thats really worthwhile" over.

in a perfect world we would have good prizes for every division, several LAN's where the players dont have to pay much by themselves etc etc. however nicer didnt ask for our dream scenario but what would realistically work for quakelive in the near future

if he has an interest and funding to it differently then this would work ... it would be a start and an investment which would reach a greater population, turn some heads, promoted by 2gd, LO3, lvlup, and even some friends made in outside games.

so 50 euro per person is like quarter of a ticket to some event.

Let's say you can even up that to be like 100 or 150 euros ... with doing it properly and doing it so it amounts to a lan. It's different since sponsors would be in it deeper etc.

yeah give me 25000€ and i can do a several division, LAN finals type of thing. where are you going to find such an investor?

yeah since a million on lol game which is lol is possible :)
I don't know what budget nicerdicer has, or if there is any money interest backing him up.
What I know is that we have rarely seen everything in quakes arsenal used to promote the game or teams or sponsors.
Let's say for instance you really used moviemakers to do pormotional movies from both tier up front with sponsors logos in game.
You do interviews with players in both tiers about what gear they use etc, you actually place those movies to gaming portals, not just ESR or QL sites.
You ask ID to feature them on front page.
You do coverage to actually make lower tier attractive, create some hype about those matches.
You ask LO3 guys to do a weekly overview of teams and progress of tournaments.

Now that is a promotion worthy of an event and that means organizing it! really carefully and with all resources this community has to offer.
You do new teams drafts or mini cups to attract new teams etc.

So if you want to attract sponsors you really need to have these things going smoothly like a machine. Only then can you go and say:
Okay I have a hardcore all types of players multimode event lan finishing finals for this game, It will get coverage, it will get promotion, it aims to get to demographic and make them addicted to a game that creates ppl playing for 15 years faithfully. How about that?

EDIT:
and what's even worse you'll find people willing to do it in the beggining for mostly no compensation.
You can even have wision do a tracker for matches and provide the coverage and specatating people with hardcore ruthless stats to guide them.

Later you can give them some money if it works, and it could if done properly. But on the other hand, if it doesn't work, then you can at least say you've tried your best. Since that is best this community can currently do.

great feedback and ideas, thank you

you're welcome!

how about tdm+ctf-duel?

http://esreality.com/post/2335872/re-quakeliv...pid2335664

Duel attracts people because of the hype created by events and casters doing duels.
I don't know if you guys recall and how many of us stayed awake to catch Quakelive TS's Greased and jehar doing NA's CTF matches, or watching them cast LLL matches.
Coverage was heavy on CTf and CTF was popular, one thing holding up TDm still is vor and DIS doing LVLupTV mostly on TDM.

This is almost all the promotion these modes got except being included into a few lans based solely on that coverage exposing talent and clutch games in those modes.

I think duel should be fielded on a lan don't get me wrong. But it should be done as a personal thing by players from teams . Since it is a solo mode where you test your own skill against others own skill.
Duel will bring you 1 players and 4 ppl from some organization. Teams bring out more players. Bad for money, good for quakers i know. But it's just my 2cents, don't take them too seriously.

were you around during the cpl world tour days? That explains it all and there's plenty of info.

In short, it's the same as throwing money to the garbage can. Sure the idea can be perfected (european stops only, not absurdly huge prize money) but it ends up in losing less money anyway. It is not sustainable even with duel alone.

I personally think its already to late for that :/
And if you gained interest with adroits lan, then continue to do adroits lans and let it grow. And if its grows, you could still realize that idea :]

yep that's the best way. I have always thought once any activity stops becoming sustainable on the financial side the way to continue is having a mature scene, which means taking it as a hobby and spending money to play if necessary (paid signups) just like Adroits was.

Right now "we" have for granted only quakecon, dh:s, dh:w and nothing else, while ugc (last year. Stermy said most probably it won't happen in 2012-early2013) and the ctf one from earlier this year are sporadic and there's always hope someone else wants to lose money on quake (esl, eswc, the promised 2gd lan that never happened).

A 4th stable and community-hosted event would be awesome, and adroits could be it. Lets not depend on organizations that will drop quake sooner or later (more like they all already did) even less so in id software (quakecon is 100% organized by the community and prize money comes from ventrilo/intel since ages. Besides the name, t-shirt contest and very rarely giving away 1month premium acc. they literally never supported QL's competitive scene).

Also I hope online tournament organizers realize online cups are way less entertaining than lans both for the players and for spectators. I'd much rather see one international lan a year (top players from lots of countries) instead of 50 weekend online cups (faceit) or 4 2gd cups (assuming he does 4 a year).


edit: Actually now that I'm on it, I think lan tournaments (that aren't quakecon obviously)) should drop the QL client entirely and use the unofficial one just to avoid matches not being played in lan servers, QL going down and network issues, all which happen every single time due to id's incompetence.

Why all my deeply thought posts get no responses nor plusses while a reaction gif gets all the attention rofl.

Cause.

^ this.

If Halo and Call of Duty are in big tournaments, Quake should definitely be there...

But big tournaments are based on quantity while quake is about quality.

it can only work if you willing to cover the travel costs so i the idea would only suit for duel. make it like "the ultimate quake live championship" with online league format and a lan finals (semifinals actually for 4 players), with bo12 or bo16 format having all maps featured. doesnt have to be a single elim. format either, but kinda like everyone plays everyone and players with the 2 most points battles it out for the champion title. obv a not stellar but moderate cash prize also needed for them.

can work if u hype it up probably, a lot of people would watch im sure. not necessarily need to be a lan, just a live studio event or smth that outlined its prestige.

let's make a kickstarter, goal $1m.

The fact that people compete in quake team death match in 2012 just blows my mind. Chasing each other for points and calling it a teamplay may have worked in 1999, but the industry has come a long way since then

Not only that, people play TDM on hidden fortress, which has like zero team play value altogether.

Posts like yours are useful because they help to identify people who know fuck all about Quake.

I think ql has shown us how tight quake players are.