Fascinating individual.

EDIT:

Great interview, asked the right questions:)

How can it be explained? Europe delivers almost the entire top 8, but America delivers the winners? It has often been like this.

esrage incoming

it is funny how throughout quake history even though europe has 10x more players, usa still was able to produce winners.

USA = 1 winner, the rest are losers
EU = everyone is ok

USA = 1 winner, the rest are losers
EU = Everyone is ok, vo0 is a loser..

edit 4 u m8

not just one. Z4, czm, maybe fat back in the day. although yeah, EU has far more.

z4 dominated the scene for a while fat maybe, czm was dominate and won stuff, cloud9 dominated the international ctf competitions when there was some. now rapha has won most of the tournies for ql.

I wouldnt bet on the same winner at every event now that so many other top stars/old legends have taken time again to play the game.

I'm thinking of cooller, cypher and av3k mostly.

Also the new update is going to favour those players a lot !

but what if you were shamelessly biased, like stunt.us?

why would I be biased? Pretty much everyone knows that a good 10 people at the top have a real BIG shot at winning major tournaments, it turns out rapha has dominated from the start, but how can you be sure he will win all the upcoming major tournaments ? Back at qcon he almost failed to spartie and players like cypher, av3k, cooller, zamuz werent that much into the game, or not at all....

Time will tell, I think rapha still has to be considered the favorite of any upcoming major tournament (IEM4 ?), but the chances of him getting on top again are getting thinner each next month in my opinion...

And it could well be dahang aswell, no bias there.. ! :)

"rapha has dominated from the start"
What about Cypher winning the first Quakecon featuring Quake Live?

i think rapha won every QL tournament he attended.

except quakecon 2008, he came 4th.

personally, i wouldn't count that. pre-open beta. even cypher who won the tournament had hardly played any quake live and the maplist was just lol.

i agree with you. rapha's doing a fantastic job of winning all these tournaments but the others are really getting there. he himself seemed very impressed with the way cooller was playing at Dreamhack. av3k's got a huge chance for sure and so does cypher. z4muz is ridiculously good but i kinda feel rapha's got an answer to his playstyle.

the next big tournament is going to be very interesting.

z4muz is not THAT good. he got lucky with the brackets, and god knows how he won that dm6 vs stermy. looking at the lower part of the brackets, he wouldn't stand a chance vs pretty much anyone.

and i'm a big fan of z4muz.

yes but it was his first big tournament in a very long time. i think he'll only get better.

agreed, av3k, cypher, etc... players just started with QL while rapha was in QL for a while...

why would I be biased?
You are not and its all good, he, however, is, that's why I wrote that.

why does it favour these players and not rapha?

You will see when the update happens. It seems logic that an aggressive, rocket-heavy playstyle will be even more rewarding than before, since aiming will get harder, outsmarting the opponent will be predominent I'd say...

actually i believe rapha has a really rocket-heavy playstyle plus rapha isnt well known for his hitscan and i believe the phrase "3-steps-ahead" was only created for him. besides outsmarting isnt the same as aggressive play imo.

so if everything you mentioned is gonna happen it will favour him too.

created for him? rather by him.

jesus made it so

5

ever seen av3k dodging rockets? Or these out-of-nowhere rockets to the face cooller does almost all the time ?

Rapha is good on cornered spamming rockets, but that's not comparable. Av3k and cooller's rockets are feared amongst all the pros, what's feared from rapha are his consistency and ability to not make too much mistakes all the while pushing you to make some yourself.

cypher = king of "out of nowhere" rockets !

wouldn't say out of nowhere, ofc they're always amazing, but he's throwing them right and left, unlike cooller or avek.

I dunno man, I feel like cooller spams rox a lot, but it's skilled spam. :)

cypher's spam is skilled too, its just that he prefers rockets over other weapons that much more than the others, whereas cooller is more of a lg player.

cooller, toxic, cypher for EU, IC easily best TDM clan of all time.

OF ALL TIME.

OF ALL TIME.

(echo) time time time time time tim...........

sk/u

IC were better.

No way:
- 3x EC Champions > 2x EC Champions

I believe SK/U won more LANs when both teams were active too (Would be unfair to include QLAN/QLAN2 I think).

What international ctf competitions? 1 quakecon?

quakecon twice and qlan in europe or w/e it was :o

aAa won the second quakecon though?

Still 2>1.

what euros went to qcon?

the two-3 best ctf teams at the time in europe went back in 03. Don't be mad link, America raped qlan2 and raped quakecon in 03. You're not as good as you thought you were.

you didnt answer my question :-)
yes cloud 9 was the best team at qlan2, i think we already talked about that?

was there any international q3 ctf tournies except for qlan2?

dont be mad u sux

winning the largest cup wouldn't qualify as "sucking" i think..

anyway, you're trolling and all so i suppose you dont have a good answer. i was just wondering if i missed any ctf lan event

you sound like that newb who lists online wins as something important.

was the only one when i was active.
believe me, everyone tried.

lulz

Why say maybe?

Fatal1ty was a top player, sure as hell deserves to be in that list:P

Guess it is more about being dominant internationaly for some period of time. Fatality did well back in his time, but he was no toxic :P

probably for the same reason we got a working economy and health care >:o

I don't know what carmac is talking about, EU and US seems to have a similair amount of winners through the years. The US have z4, czm and fat, EU has had toxjq, cypher, av3k, cooller.

What he meant is we don't have that 3/7 ratio in the top 8, more like 2/8 ...
If that makes sense :P

edit : similar amount of winners, but not similar amount of top8 players

That would be explained by the player ratio itself. How many MORE players are there in EU?

Russia and Belarus is part of the EU?

best of luck Vo0!

I'm sure he can't beat chuck norris

charles bronson either

talk about morale!

america, fuck yeah!

thats nice, vo0.

I believe I can fly.

I believe i can touch the sky.

I think about Vo0 every night and day.

spread my wings and fly away.

Latest games I've seen from him are pretty promising.

Go Vo0!!

go Vo0!

.

whos iris (gaming wise)?

also:
How big are the chances that the American Championship's winner will not be an American?

About 12.5%.

What's the math behind that?

lol @ carmath!

iris would be an professional starcraft player who also goes by the alias berserker. any other is a total douche and a fake!

Looks like his real name is Rebecca and is Vo0's new girlfriend. 8(

them sneaky koreans!

Okay I might sound cynical but so be it. I am kind of tired of this pre-tournament hype interview style where pro A,B,C all will say he is capable of beating everyone else, yeah sure, otherwise they would not have made to top 8/16/32 , does not need further evidence. questions regarding map preferences / how they keep calm when getting frustrated in game etc will be much appreciated.

I still think Coollers going to come good for the next big tourney. Rapha's the man at the minute. Av3ks the dark horse.
I'd love to see a Cooller - Rapha final :) It would be awesome, Cooller wouldn't be phased one bit by Rapha, mentaly. Rapha's the man to beat though, he lays the smack down big time! ;)

ql needs more Vo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPfaQJuWGvU

tbh the american quake scene always seemed more focused on duelling while the eu are more into team games

This is very much true at the moment, TDM and CTF are near dead if not dead already over here currently. It's rather sad.

yes seconded.

I really wish more of the pro players took time to play team gametypes... we only really have 1 ultra pro NA team, anyone below the top 2 doesn't stand a chance at ever making money on the international scene.

Yeah, it sucks. I've been playing a lot of TDM lately, and I'm really starting to like it. I'd love to get into it competitively, but there's very little outside of some 2v2s. :(

Rooting for Vo0.

top notch stuff Carmac, as per usual. Love these interviews :)

"I belive I can fly..."

oh, sh1t! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1799842#pid1799842

The biggest problem with Quake has always been it only suits one style of play and that can often make the game fundamentally biased because it happens to suit some peoples style of play and offers little or no scope for others.

Think of it like this, you play streetfighter, you pick a character to suit your style, everyone starts with Ryu, but after time you develop your own style and therfore use a different character whose approach to the match is radically different and in tune with the way you think and play.

Quake just doesn't have the gameplay scope for anything like this, so as a result eveyone is forced to use this single character, which is fine, but what if the style of play of the default quake character is biased towards certain style of play?

It would mean that some players gain a natural advantage to the game, because its naturally built for how they would probably play anyway.

In a word, the game is flawed becaue it doesn't offer enough scope for individual styles. It forces (or thereabout) an optimum style of play which does not suit everyone.

Moral of the story, vo0 isn't a Ryu player.

Bullshit

So why does vo0 keep losing to osp players?

1) The style of play does not suit his play style (thus confirming my point).

2) The CPM community is underskilled and he gained a false sense of eliteness within that community (thus confirming my other point and admitting your mod retards people?

I'll let you decide which option you want to pick as you only left yourself two options, mostly becaue the basis of your initial point was wrong.

Happy choosing.

3) Lack of experience (in vq3) and practice?

Practice + Experience?

The guy has been playing Quake for over half his life and Quakelive is almost identical to the 10 year old game its based on.

I'm not buying that.

Vo0 played q3 for about a year before moving to cpm (in 2003), which really can be considered a different game. I don't think that's a lot of experience, and the time between that and the present day surely must have made him forgotten how vq3 plays, even if the basic principles apply to cpm and painkiller as well.

Just for the info, I agree on what you said quake favoring the type of play Vo0 isn't really known of. But you make it sound like he could never learn that style and that's where I disagree. Even if Vo0 is talented (in dm games in general) you can't expect him re-create his style in mere months of on/off practice like has done till today and then compare him to those who actually have played the exact game for years.

Once again, Vo0 isn't any good. For two, VQ3 has horribly inconsistent tournament results. People use excuses like "x wasn't practicing", or "x wasn't at his prime", "x was younger", etc, but really, the blame is the game.

Your comparison is broken in so many ways, though. You play Street Fighter, but lose in Quake. By your logic, Quake > Street Fighter. Vo0 has beaten Fatal1ty in PK, so is PK > Quake? Daler and Fatal1ty traded wins in both Q3 and D3, so are both games equally bad? I've beaten Daler - am I better than Fatal1ty? You lose to everyone in everything, are you French?

Certain players play games in a certain type of way, when you have a game like quake which is failrly linear in terms of gameplay it means certain players are being handcapped before they even begin. In order to really carve out their own style the investment they need to put into it is beyond a joke.

I lose at quake (and only then to longterm players) because I didn't buy my first pc until 2004 (for doom 3) and I have played it a fraction of the times that most of the people who beat me have played it. I don't even go into it with the mentality of trying to win because I know how long and serious many people have been playing it. Its pointless trying to play catchup with the investment I can make.

Had I been playing like some of you since 1997 I promise you, it would be different.

If this is your attempt to try and rubbish me then give it up, becaue all you're doing is showing how much you're prepared to ignore basic knowledge.

I can quite comfrotably challenge any quake 3 pro to a game of street fighter now and wipe the floor with him, get fatality, get cooller, they won't even win a round and this is a not some niche game, its one the biggest games of all time with a tourney scene before quake even existed. If these are pro magic super duper gamers then bring it on. Otherwise you don't have a point (its the latter BTW)

There isn't a single quake player who came from nowhere,they all have long histories of years and years in thegame, often at a tournament level slowing climbing the ranks.

Its not a game you can just jump into and start owning at.

Haven't seen you in any tournament yet, mate! Not Street Fighter, not Quake, not Trackmania, not anything! Every example of you playing someone in anything involves you getting stomped. Not just beaten, but sodomized without lube.

You show humility over your terrible Quake skills, now that stats are public. Would you like the opportunity for the same humility in SF?

You haven't entered any tourney for any game that you claim to be good at. You say you are only bad at Quake because you don't put time into it, but you don't participate in ANYTHING at a high level.

You have stopped boasting about your great Quake skills just as soon as your QL profile was posted. Now it's just "OH, I'M JUST NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I DON'T PRACTICE" from you. One by one, all of your lies have been systematically debunked.

The only thing you have left that hasn't been debunked is your Street Fighter skills. Let's get that out of the way, shall we? We don't even need to involve money, since that seems to have scared you off the last time.

Where did I say I was a pro-player or that I enter tourneys?
Oh that's right I didn't.

If you had the first clue about games you would realise that the time invested is a massive factor in the outcome of a game, but you don't want to entertain that because it does not suit your chlidish half assed assement of a players performance to factor in such observations.

I show no humility, for the time I have played Quake I'm more than happy with my performance and its probably a lot higher than most in regard to the amount of time I have played.

You haven't entered any tourney for any game that you claim to be good at. You say you are only bad at Quake because you don't put time into it, but you don't participate in ANYTHING at a high level.

You have stopped boasting about your great Quake skills just as soon as your QL profile was posted. Now it's just "OH, I'M JUST NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I DON'T PRACTICE" from you. One by one, all of your lies have been systematically debunked.

The only thing you have left that hasn't been debunked is your Street Fighter skills. Let's get that out of the way, shall we? We don't even need to involve money, since that seems to have scared you off the last time.

Funny how you keep trying to derail what gets said.

Logic #1:- I play quakelive on average 4 hours a month, I set opponent on very difficult for the most part, play a few games and that's it, And you use that regime to determine my skill.

Cool. Just so we know what we're dealing with here.

Lastly you keep trying to move the goal posts, my level of skill has nothing to do with pros in those genres, anymore than the people who beat me at quake have anything to do with the skill level of others in Quake live.

That's just you trying to make me look crap again because my point wasn't one you could argue with.

I said, being beaten by a better, more expereinced player in quake is no different to me beating them at another game.
especailly ones with an infinitely bigger player base.

So my qwuestion ,is why do you try to make such a big deal?

See you're convinced on trying to tell me I'm nothing, but you forget the fact that if you really believed that then you wouldn't keep trying to respond like your life depended on it.

I'm simply responding to see how broken your logic gets.
Its quite funny.

The goal post only moves with you. First, you say you're good at a game, then you say that you haven't played the game much, then you say that you haven't practiced the game, and then you say that you play some OTHER game. So which is it? Exactly what do you think you are good at? You say you have potential talent in anything, so you must have at least ONE thing that you have reached the peak of talent in, right?

I take it we can scratch Street Fighter off of the list now, since you dodged the challenge. Honestly, I'm so surprised.

No, you're missing out that all important point.

I said I AM GOOD AT THE GAME IN RELATION TO THE INVESTMENT I HAVE MADE. Which is all anyone can be.

That seems to be a point you find difficult taking on board, but its an important one because what makes it special when a kid becomes a grand master at a young age?

His ability in relation to his age, or time invested.

Even if he was worse than someone who had consderably more expereince, nobody would call him shite because he lost to someone with a tenfold amount of experiece, yet here you are, because that's how little playtime I have comapred to the people who put any serious score on me when I'm in shape and care and not being played on a 15 year old maps they spent their youth on. I think I proved that at the start of Quake 4 when I took a dutch national dueller into Overtime. I could not frag the guy in quake 3 and here I am after 15 minutes in to sudden death.

oh the streetfigther one, oh ok, here is me vs the winner of this years EVO2K9 tourrney in America. I lost by a single weak punch.
And its not a fluke becaue I have taken games off some of the best and you'll see me SUper Street Figther 4 when I finally have my DJ and Guy.

Great way to prove your point, you're wrong about Trackmania too (and you are wrong about quake aswell and don't get me started on career), but then again I don't recall comparing myself to the best in the world in these genres, anymore than I tell people who beat me in Quakelive they are crap because Cooller would beat them.

I was just making you realise that being better than someone in one tourney style game means nothing if you can beat that very same person in an equally, if not more hardcore game.

The signups and tournament history of streetfighter eclipse that of Quake.

And the offer is open should you find a quakelive pro to play Trackmania or Streetfighter.

The irony is, I would probably perform to a higher level across more competivie games than anyone on this site who has stuck the boot into my skills at quake.

That's the sheer iront of it, but its often the case when you exceed the demographics of anywhere.

The irony is, I would probably perform to a higher level across more competivie games than anyone on this site who has stuck the boot into my skills at quake.

Name those competitive games so people can challenge you then?

SC, WC3, DOTA, Quake (any/all), CS, UT, CoD, ET, SF, TM, FIFA? Any others you'd care to add?

twoer defense, rtcw, poker.

BLOBBY VOLLEY !!!1

Changing your story again, but this time with the most pathetic excuse yet... You're attempting to justify the time YOU choose to invest in a game as your excuse for being bad. It's about as valid as "I DIDN'T PRACTICE FOR THIS TOURNAMENT" - read: not at all. Either accept that you are bad, or do something about it. Participation isn't an achievement.

Did I ask for a screenshot? Hmm... nope. You willing to play, or are you a coward? Go ahead and name the other "competitive" games that you seem to think that you could perform well at, and let's get this shit over with.

Since you expect it of Vo0, you should find it perfectly fair to play a few other fighting games like MvC2, Tekken 6, and GGX2. All clearly lesser skilled games, but all fighting games, so you should have NO trouble dominating.

I was just making you realise that being better than someone in one tourney style game means nothing if you can beat that very same person in an equally, if not more hardcore game.

retarded logic. Being pro at a equally hardcore game > being good in another, period. You said you will prove you can become pro in SSF4, I gladly wait for it. You can't talk shit to anybody till then.

i know carnage plays sf4 although I have no idea how seriously he takes it.

i believe the dutchmasterpro had a reason for you tieing him btw. the post is somewhere.

but ye, you can say your rusty but your quake skill level seems pretty bad :| please stop talking!

looking forward to your progaming ssf4 career!

There isn't a single quake player who came from nowhere,they all have long histories of years and years in the game, often at a tournament level slowing climbing the ranks.

It's the same with every game (Even Street Fighter!). Every good player has a long history in games with transferable skill sets, if you don't put the effort in it doesn't matter how much talent you may or may not have.

It's the same in all professional sports, or do you think Federer just randomly entered Wimbledon one year and won?.

So why do you bitch about certain players skill then and show no concept to the very fabric of what is an essential component that all good players have.

Are you that intimidated by me that I get waivered. I'm touched, but not even I am immune to such a rule.

I bitch about what?

because I didn't buy my first pc until 2004 (for doom 3)

wtf?

My bullshit isnt about vq3 vs cpm its about only 1 style works and thats it which is UNTRUE guess you're a newb who hasnt seen enough but over the years, there has been players who dominated and everyone copyed them but once and awhile a player/team comes along and counters it with a different style, some germen clan whos name escapes me did that whole door camping thing that totally changed tdm for awhile, and i still remember being on gtv when daler after spending sometime in cpm pulled off a rocket jump in a vq3 match and everyone on gtv thought it was nuts.

But yes vq3 does limit the ability of players with different styles to win but doesnt mean that only one style is possible

And voo was great at cpm but he was never the top player there were plenty of poles and rat who could trash him.

You're misunderstanding the ONE STYLE.

If two people pick ryu, one can still play aggressive and the other can play cautiously, its still a game without any real surprsie.

Its subtle in quake but its partly why the game is failing ,most players do NOT make that level of investment in the game where they can carve out their own style.

That's why the guy above had to resort to professioanls to justify any real great examples of variety in play. Essnetially cementing my point.

When you play a game like SF, the fighting style of the character precedes that the player. You pick dhalsim and your wholegame revolves around keeping opponent out. You pick balrog and your whole games revovles around getting in close.

In quake, the player precedes the main character because its a one size fits all and you need to be crazy good to effectively carve out any single style.

if you turtle you get called if22, if you're aggressive then, well I don't know many aggressive quake players who can pull it off, certainly no one who isn't a pro.

So my point is, they should add more obvious forms of variation, I'm not going to say classes, but somethign not a millions miles from that.

That's why the guy above had to resort to professioanls to justify any real great examples of variety in play.

Probably more likely because they are the most well known, I'd doubt you'd know practically any of the people that he/we/etc could bring up to illustrate the point (thus making it not illustrated due to your ignorance of these players).

There's massive differences between how me and each of my team mates approach the game in all the modes (noticeable too).

if you turtle you get called if22, if you're aggressive then, well I don't know many aggressive quake players who can pull it off, certainly no one who isn't a pro.

You're muddying the argument to ridiculous levels here.

Firstly, you claim the top tier players don't count because they are "extremes", then you claim that players who can't "pull it off", essentially, don't count.

The top tier players represent all those who can "pull off" their respective styles, and everyone else represents the degrees of not being able to "pull it off".

So which is it? You can't pick both just because it suits your argument and ignorance of Quake.

Why does being capable of successfully pulling off a style matter?
I'm sure there's tonnes of Dhalism players who essentially can't pull it off, but persevere anyway.

most players do NOT make that level of investment in the game where they can carve out their own style.


ok, so now, how does being 'OK at it for the time you put in' matter if you clearly haven't reached that level and thus, your style its nothing and yet, you brag about you being somewhat special considering the time you put in, as you weren't even able to show your talent in your play?

yeah they all play exactly the same... zamuz, cooller, zero4, cypher, avek, rapha, fox... I couldn't tell any difference if it wasn't for the name on screen! the only difference seems to be the amount of time they put into practising, those bloody timefraggers!!!

then there's a game like CPM that allows much more freedom in gameplay and makes it easier to overcome +back play, and again you call it flawed because now it seems so easy to chicken out of tricky situations (and you surely are an expert in that regard), ignoring all the options of different styles that come with it.


too bad quake doesn't favour your natural style of being crap at quake :(

I love how you use a handful of pros who had to dump in years and years of their lives to carve out those styles as your counter point.

Isn't it funny how the only way you can counter what I say is by going to the extremes. Of which you can do with pretty much everything.

Sadly everything I said mostly applies the other %99.9 of the playbase because most people can't get away with the things any of those players do (and is therefore invalid). So your point ultimately reflects how desperate and opportunistic you are.

You're ultimately too stupid and biased to ever offer a suitable reply to my posts, go and do something useful and approve image files or something.

as if it's hard to make a suitable reply to your posts. Here's one:


lol, moron.

When you stop spelling "too" as "two" then we'll talk about giving you permissions to call people moron.

You're too much of a moron for me to require your permission. You should also stop shitting bricks on a glass loo, your spelling is too bad for that.

Twice, your turn.


Oh wait you already are making a fool out of yourself:

because its naturally built for how they would probably play anyway.

Its pointless trying to play catchup with the investment I can make.

Quakelive is almost identical to the 10 year old game its based on.

Its not a game you can just jump into and start owning at.

(its the latter BTW)

Maybe we should switch to a language where you actually know the grammar?

its is my favourite word.

You're kinda like a worse version of vedic.

like you are a bad version of bubble?

ah so that explains why I am not a top 8 player...

ESL Dubai:

Fox beats Rapha
Cypher beats Fox
Rapha beats Cypher

we already made a game that doesnt reward +back and +back only, its called CPM. But for some reason u always bash it whenever u get the chance, maybe deep down u actually like vq3 and the lack of depth because of the "optimal gamestyle" that is always rewarded, and since u are bad at every game u play u chose to support vq3 where u can always use the "timefragger" excuse, which is completely invalid since there is absolutely no game or sport that allows people with less than 2/3 years of experience to be at the top.

It's ok, he didn't even have a PC until 2004, despite working as a game designer and having six figure salaries!

Ah the old money thing again, its not fair is it, when I was your age I ws just receiving a nice juicy cheque and here you are at the same age, I suspect a flat broke student who will be lucky to clear his student overdraft by 30. I guess this is why someone very wise told me not to talk about my finances, its too much for some people to handle.

Shit man, if denial and mockery help you sleep at night then the least I can do is humour you.

I'm not even close to being close to broke mate.

I mean, I can afford a macbook pro after all! (I also had a PC before 2004 despite having never earned a six figure salary).

good thing you took that advice... oh wait

haha i like how he skimps the part of not owning a pc despite claiming to be a games designer or whatever.

how can you even compare the two? street fighter is so limited options wise, sure theres probably alot of controll and strategy to it, but its more like pacman.

quake has much more options and allows variations in gameplay that are not character dependant.

wow isnt better just because you have more characters and races and spells and items to chose from

I believe the sun should never set upon an argument

funny, people still bite jamerio's bullshit. i bet my sister in law's ass jamerio is ugly and boring little sucker

sheepshagger/inferiority complex

excuse me?

he is talking about jamerio.

Everyone knows Romanians shag donkeys ;)

with his six figure salary, he probably can get the butler he got in 2004 to shag it for him
^_^

with his six figure salary, he can probably get a butler to shag him.

XD
not before 2004 though.
he's TWO smart for that

hes

really bad place to make a mistake
:<